XPost: comp.theory, sci.logic, sci.math
From: polcott333@gmail.com
On 11/18/2025 5:47 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
> On 18/11/2025 03:10, dart200 wrote:
>> On 11/17/25 7:07 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>> On 2025-11-18, dart200 wrote:
>>>> On 11/17/25 4:31 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 11/17/2025 6:06 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> The halting problem is requiring deciders to
>>>>>>> compute information that is not contained in
>>>>>>> their input.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string
>>>>>> describing the machine
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That the halting problem limits computation
>>>>> is like this very extreme example:
>>>>>
>>>>> Predict who the next president of the United States
>>>>> will be entirely on the basis of √2 (square root of 2).
>>>>> That cannot be derived from the input.
>>>>
>>>> bruh, ur agreeing with the halting problem:
>>>>
>>>> one cannot take the string describing the machine, and use it to
>>>> compute
>>>> whether the machine described halts
>>>
>>> But that isn't true; you certainly can do that. Just not using one
>>> unified algorithm that works for absolutely all such strings.
>>>
>>> When it /does/ work, it's certainly not based on any input other than
>>> the string.
>>
>> yes i meant generally
>>
>> you also can't compute generally whether you can or cannot compute
>> whether a an machine description halts or not
>
> What does that mean though?
>
> It sounds like you're asking for a /single/ TM that given /any/ machine
> description D, must compute "whether or not D's halting is computable".
> [And saying no such single TM exists?]
>
> The problem is in the phrase within quotes. Surely that phrase means
> "whether or not there exists a TM that computes whether the given D
> halts or not"? If not, what does it mean?
>
>
> Mike.
>
typedef int (*ptr)();
int HHH(ptr P);
int HHH1(ptr P);
int DD()
{
int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
if (Halt_Status)
HERE: goto HERE;
return Halt_Status;
}
int main()
{
HHH(DD);
}
HHH simulates DD that calls HHH(DD)
that simulates DD that calls HHH(DD)...
HHH1 simulates DD that calls HHH(DD) that
returns to DD that returns to HHH1.
The behavior of DD simulated by HHH1 is the
same as the behavior of DD() executed from main.
The sound basis of this reasoning is the
semantics of the C programming language.
(a) Halt deciders are required to report on the
actual behavior that their actual input actually
specifies.
(b) The halting problem requires Halt deciders to
report on other than the actual behavior that their
actual input actually specifies making the halting
problem incorrect.
--
Copyright 2025 Olcott
My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning" computable.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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