XPost: comp.theory, sci.logic, sci.math   
   From: polcott333@gmail.com   
      
   On 11/26/2025 4:01 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   > olcott kirjoitti 17.11.2025 klo 15.31:   
   >> On 11/17/2025 2:43 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>> On 2025-11-17 00:12:14 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 11/16/2025 3:18 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>> On 2025-11-15 16:12:49 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> On 11/15/2025 4:15 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 2025-11-14 15:00:09 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> On 11/14/2025 3:21 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-13 15:50:37 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2025 2:48 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-12 12:54:12 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2025 1:09 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-11 13:04:13 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2025 2:59 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-10 14:48:00 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/2025 3:43 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-09 12:51:57 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/2025 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-08 13:36:06 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/8/2025 2:05 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-07 12:57:48 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/7/2025 2:05 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-06 20:48:02 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated final halt state.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is merely a defect in H and irrelevanto to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the semantic and other   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> properties of D.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's a stupid statement.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stupid is better than false.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is stupidly false because you didn't bother   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to pay any attention at all.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A statement about me is off topic in comp.theory.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H simulates D that calls H(D) that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulates D that calls H(D) that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulates D that calls H(D) that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulates D that calls H(D) that never reaches   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the simulated "return" statement final halt   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state of D because D calls H(D) in recursive   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever done any actual programming?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A question about me is off topic in comp.theory. But   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yes, I did yesterday.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is my key foundational point*   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int H(char* P);   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int D()   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    int Halt_Status = H(D);   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    if (Halt_Status)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      HERE: goto HERE;   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    return Halt_Status;   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The above is in test.c   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulate.exe implements a C interpreter.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulate test.c   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> runs the interpreter on the above source file   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the command prompt.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any program that does not correctly tell whether test.c   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halts is not   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a halt decider. A program that gives an incorrect   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer is not even   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a partial halt decider.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When this interpreter sees the call to H(D)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it calls itself with the text body of D.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to C semanttics it should simulate H(D),   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either simultating   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructions of H or simulating the return from H(D)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the same   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> returned value as H(D) would return if executed, or do   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever H would   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do if H would not not return.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is not the behavior that the input to H(D) specifies.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulator.exe simulates Test.c. This simulates D that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calls H(D) that the simulator recognizes as itself.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is the behavour C semantics specifies. According to C   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semantics   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other behavour that produces the same result is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equally valid.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So D remains stuck in recursive simulation never being   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to complete its first statement before calling H(D)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again and again.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If that happens then H does not return and therefore is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not a decider.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe my work is over your head.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe the definition of "decider" is over your head.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> typedef int (*ptr)();   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> int DD()   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> {   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>    int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>    if (Halt_Status)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>      HERE: goto HERE;   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>    return Halt_Status;   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> }   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> int main()   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> {   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DD);   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> }   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> People here have consistently lied about   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> DD simulated by HHH reaching its own "return"   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> statement final halt state for three years.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> You yourself have not told the truth about   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> this even once.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> That seems to confirm that the definition of "decider" is   
   >>>>>>>>>>> over your head.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> I am just talking at the level of the execution   
   >>>>>>>>>> trace of C functions. D does specify non-halting   
   >>>>>>>>>> behavior to its termination analyzer.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> The termination problem is not about specifying "to its   
   >>>>>>>>> termination   
   >>>>>>>>> analyzer". Instead the termination problem is to determine whether   
   >>>>>>>>> a program terminates every time when used as it was designed to be   
   >>>>>>>>> used.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> The halting problem requires that a halt decider   
      
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