XPost: comp.theory, sci.logic, sci.math   
   From: chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com   
      
   On 11/26/2025 11:49 PM, Mikko wrote:   
   > olcott kirjoitti 26.11.2025 klo 17.17:   
   >> On 11/26/2025 4:01 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>> olcott kirjoitti 17.11.2025 klo 15.31:   
   >>>> On 11/17/2025 2:43 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>> On 2025-11-17 00:12:14 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> On 11/16/2025 3:18 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 2025-11-15 16:12:49 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> On 11/15/2025 4:15 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-14 15:00:09 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 11/14/2025 3:21 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-13 15:50:37 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2025 2:48 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-12 12:54:12 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2025 1:09 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-11 13:04:13 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2025 2:59 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-10 14:48:00 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/2025 3:43 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-09 12:51:57 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/2025 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-08 13:36:06 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/8/2025 2:05 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-07 12:57:48 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/7/2025 2:05 AM, Mikko wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-11-06 20:48:02 +0000, olcott said:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated final halt state.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is merely a defect in H and irrelevanto to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the semantic and other   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> properties of D.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's a stupid statement.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stupid is better than false.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is stupidly false because you didn't bother   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to pay any attention at all.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A statement about me is off topic in comp.theory.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H simulates D that calls H(D) that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulates D that calls H(D) that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulates D that calls H(D) that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulates D that calls H(D) that never reaches   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the simulated "return" statement final halt   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state of D because D calls H(D) in recursive   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever done any actual programming?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A question about me is off topic in comp.theory.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But yes, I did yesterday.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is my key foundational point*   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int H(char* P);   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int D()   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    int Halt_Status = H(D);   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    if (Halt_Status)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      HERE: goto HERE;   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    return Halt_Status;   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The above is in test.c   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulate.exe implements a C interpreter.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulate test.c   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> runs the interpreter on the above source file   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the command prompt.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any program that does not correctly tell whether   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> test.c halts is not   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a halt decider. A program that gives an incorrect   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer is not even   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a partial halt decider.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When this interpreter sees the call to H(D)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it calls itself with the text body of D.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to C semanttics it should simulate H(D),   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either simultating   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructions of H or simulating the return from H(D)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the same   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> returned value as H(D) would return if executed, or   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do whatever H would   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do if H would not not return.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is not the behavior that the input to H(D)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specifies.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulator.exe simulates Test.c. This simulates D that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calls H(D) that the simulator recognizes as itself.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is the behavour C semantics specifies. According to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> C semantics   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other behavour that produces the same result is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equally valid.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So D remains stuck in recursive simulation never being   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to complete its first statement before calling H(D)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again and again.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If that happens then H does not return and therefore is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not a decider.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe my work is over your head.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe the definition of "decider" is over your head.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> typedef int (*ptr)();   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> int DD()   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> {   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>    int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>    if (Halt_Status)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>      HERE: goto HERE;   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>    return Halt_Status;   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> }   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> int main()   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> {   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DD);   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> }   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> People here have consistently lied about   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD simulated by HHH reaching its own "return"   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> statement final halt state for three years.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You yourself have not told the truth about   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this even once.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> That seems to confirm that the definition of "decider" is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> over your head.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> I am just talking at the level of the execution   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> trace of C functions. D does specify non-halting   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> behavior to its termination analyzer.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
      
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