XPost: comp.theory, sci.math, sci.logic   
   From: polcott333@gmail.com   
      
   On 12/23/2025 10:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   > On 12/23/25 11:02 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >> On 12/23/2025 9:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >>> On 12/23/25 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>> On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >>>>> On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> input alphabet. That is:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> according to one of two types of properties:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>    string itself, such as containing a particular   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave it   
   >>>>>>>>>>> to describe P?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't   
   >>>>>>>>>>> give it the right encoding.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> The common meaning of the term "describe" does   
   >>>>>>>>>> not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> But the term-of-art does.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Because is does not directly say that it specifies   
   >>>>>>>> an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field   
   >>>>>>>> of the theory of computation totally miss the very   
   >>>>>>>> subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used by   
   >>>>>>> the machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with the input   
   >>>>>>> to that machine, the exact sequence of steps the machine will do.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are a   
   >>>>>>> suitable encoding for the input?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset   
   >>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions   
   >>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly   
   >>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the   
   >>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word   
   >>>>>>>>>> is required.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine   
   >>>>>>>>> encoded (which is another term for describing) is a valid   
   >>>>>>>>> criteria that a decider must be able to be asked.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Nope, where does it say that?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> It says the computational steps encoded in the input string. That   
   >>>>>>> would be the UTM processing of the string.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close   
   >>>>>> attention. On the other hand   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Individuals with Asperger syndrome often   
   >>>>>> exhibit exceptional focus and persistence   
   >>>>>> when pursuing their interests or tasks.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Which has not been renamed to a kind of   
   >>>>>> attention deficit by the morons in charge.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> I have hyper focused attention you have lack of   
   >>>>>> sufficient attention.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen to be   
   >>>>> wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall back to your   
   >>>>> normal proceedure of ignoring your error and repeating your false   
   >>>>> claim.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> The key solution for this (if one exists) is for   
   >>>>>> you to read this over and over again until you   
   >>>>>> can directly see that nothing like the idea of   
   >>>>>> a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or   
   >>>>>> implied.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that   
   >>>>>> computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},   
   >>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the   
   >>>>>> input alphabet. That is:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> 1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,   
   >>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> 2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated   
   >>>>>> according to one of two types of properties:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input   
   >>>>>> string itself, such as containing a particular   
   >>>>>> substring or satisfying a structural pattern.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of   
   >>>>>> computational steps explicitly encoded by the input   
   >>>>>> string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself   
   >>>>>> specifies when interpreted as a machine description.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property   
   >>>>>> holds for the input and Reject otherwise.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something wrong, just   
   >>>>> repeated the statement which I showed you what it means.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Maybe formal correctness is too overwhelming.   
   >>>   
   >>> Yes, it seems to have overwhelmed you.   
   >>>   
   >>> You didn't respond to my explanation, so I guess you are just   
   >>> admitting that you removed my CORRECT description and agree to it.   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
      
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