From: nospam@nospicedham.nospam.invalid   
      
   Tavis Ormandy wrote:   
      
   > The assembler isn't the issue, you're trying to assemble a program   
   > written for DOS. You need to find a tutorial designed for the system   
   > you're targetting.   
      
   I apologize if I didn't know enough to ask the right question.   
      
   I just want to assemble a few programs on the Windows 10 x64 command line.   
      
   I would have called that "DOS" but it seems it's not DOS at all based on   
   what others said, so I don't know what else to call that command interface.   
      
    I press the Windows key & the "r" key, and then I type "cmd"   
    and then I press the "enter" key. Whatever CLI that happens to   
    be called, is what I want the program I assemble to work inside of.   
      
   > Which language do you usually write in? If you're a C   
   > programmer, you wouldn't expect CreateWindowEx() to work on DOS, and   
   > likewise int 21h doesn't work on Windows.   
      
   I am not a developer. I'm just a person. I just want to follow a basic   
   tutorial that takes a noob through the first set of five or ten programs.   
      
   Have you seen the Android Studio tutorials (in Kotlin & in Java) for   
   example? In an hour or two, you have a handful of programs working on your   
   cellphone, where none of them fail in my experience.   
      
   The only time you get a failure is when you go off script, and then you can   
   back up and go back on script and they suddenly work again.   
      
   Surely such a tutorial must exist for an assembler tutorial on Windows 10.   
      
   > The assemblers suggested can assemble programs for Windows 10, you've   
   > been given good advice.   
      
   Are you sure MASM is good advice for a noob if they also have to install   
   hundreds of megabytes of software just to get a 311 kilobyte assembler to   
   work?   
      
   And, is Nasm good advice for a noob if the tutorials they're using   
   (admittedly obviously lousy tutorials) result in failed programs from the   
   start?   
      
   All a noob beginner wants is a tutorial that results in code that works.   
      
   It's ok if that code is super simple (why do you think "hello world" is a   
   standard in almost all programming languages anyways?).   
      
   > Do you mean "beginner" in the sense that you're an experienced Win32   
   > developer, but not familiar with assembly?   
      
   The last time I took an IBM assembly language class was way back in the   
   sixties, where my first language was Fortran in the seventies, and my second   
   was COBOL and PL/1 was my third, still in the seventies, and that was the   
   last programming class I ever took.   
      
   We're talking punched cards of IBM JCL (in the first few cards) and then,   
   much later, being able to type at terminals (before modems, which were "new   
   fangled" decades later, when the AT&T phone was put into the cushions but we   
   still sat at "terminals" and waited for our folded paper to be pulled off   
   the dot matrix printer and put in the bins by alphabetical login names.   
      
   All this, of course, predates the personal computer, linux, etc., but what   
   was then and is now, is that a good tutorial is an empirical thing, much as   
   a good physics lab is empirical more so than theoretical.   
      
   What I'm looking for is an empirical assembly language tutorial for use on a   
   modern Windows desktop, where that empirical tutorial is much like that of   
   Android Studio, which is about as perfect as a tutorial can be in my   
   humblest of noob opinions.   
      
   Did you ever take a lab class in school?   
   The lab tells you exactly what to do, does it not?   
   You learn by watching what happens, but the lab is designed to work.   
      
   All I want is an assembly language tutorial that works just like a lab works   
   in physics or chemistry or biology, where the lab is designed to work for   
   everyone.   
      
   If the lab doesn't work, either it's a terrible lab, or a terrible student,   
   but more often any lab that doesn't work is just a poorly designed lab.   
      
   The tutorial I want is like a chemistry experiment lab, where the guy   
   writing the lab knows what's supposed to happen. The noob doing the lab just   
   makes it happen as the lab was written.   
      
   So far I haven't found that tutorial yet as the lab includes the equipment   
   (the lab is worthless without the equipment).   
      
   The assembly language tutorial is worthless without the assembler in that   
   respect just as a chemistry lab without chemicals is worthless as a lab.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)