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   comp.lang.forth      Forth programmers eat a lot of Bratwurst      117,927 messages   

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   Message 116,317 of 117,927   
   Paul Rubin to Anton Ertl   
   Re: Closures   
   14 Mar 24 15:19:12   
   
   From: no.email@nospam.invalid   
      
   anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:   
   > However, I don't think that it became idiomatic, because if it had   
   > become idiomatic, the successor languages of Algol 60 would have   
   > supported call by name,   
      
   I don't see this implication.  It could be idiomatic and simultaneously   
   been considered a bad idea.  Maybe there is an Algol textbook online   
   that could say.   
      
   > The intention for [Lisp] was lexical scoping, but the implementation   
   > used dynamic scoping. ...  Eventually Common Lisp (started 1981,   
   > released 1984) added a separate syntax for lexical scoping to   
   > mainstream Lisp, but that was more than two decades after dynamically   
   > scoped Lisp had been implemented and become idiomatic.   
      
   Scheme had lexical scope in the late 1970s and I believe it appeared in   
   some Lisps earlier than Common Lisp, but that was before my time.  I   
   might ask on the Lisp group.  There is also the matter that dynamic   
   scope is very easy to implement, so that might have affected what people   
   did.   
      
   > Another case is the story of S-expressions vs. (Algol- or ML-like)   
   > M-expressions in Lisp.   
      
   M-expressions never caught on because Lispers liked S-expressions.   
      
   > And yet, Lisp had so much existing code by the time the scoping   
   > implementation was discovered as being buggy that they could not fix   
   > it.   
      
   I don't know about this, there are some implementation techniques   
   (naming conventions) you can use to (somehwat) prevent dynamic scope   
   from going awry.  GNU Emacs uses that approach extensively since it   
   exclusively used dynamic scope for a long time (it has lexical scope   
   now).   
      
   > In any case, call-by-name does not appear in any later languages that   
   > I have ever heard of.   
      
   https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/scala-functions-call-by-name/   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

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