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|    comp.lang.forth    |    Forth programmers eat a lot of Bratwurst    |    117,927 messages    |
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|    Message 116,317 of 117,927    |
|    Paul Rubin to Anton Ertl    |
|    Re: Closures    |
|    14 Mar 24 15:19:12    |
      From: no.email@nospam.invalid              anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:       > However, I don't think that it became idiomatic, because if it had       > become idiomatic, the successor languages of Algol 60 would have       > supported call by name,              I don't see this implication. It could be idiomatic and simultaneously       been considered a bad idea. Maybe there is an Algol textbook online       that could say.              > The intention for [Lisp] was lexical scoping, but the implementation       > used dynamic scoping. ... Eventually Common Lisp (started 1981,       > released 1984) added a separate syntax for lexical scoping to       > mainstream Lisp, but that was more than two decades after dynamically       > scoped Lisp had been implemented and become idiomatic.              Scheme had lexical scope in the late 1970s and I believe it appeared in       some Lisps earlier than Common Lisp, but that was before my time. I       might ask on the Lisp group. There is also the matter that dynamic       scope is very easy to implement, so that might have affected what people       did.              > Another case is the story of S-expressions vs. (Algol- or ML-like)       > M-expressions in Lisp.              M-expressions never caught on because Lispers liked S-expressions.              > And yet, Lisp had so much existing code by the time the scoping       > implementation was discovered as being buggy that they could not fix       > it.              I don't know about this, there are some implementation techniques       (naming conventions) you can use to (somehwat) prevent dynamic scope       from going awry. GNU Emacs uses that approach extensively since it       exclusively used dynamic scope for a long time (it has lexical scope       now).              > In any case, call-by-name does not appear in any later languages that       > I have ever heard of.              https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/scala-functions-call-by-name/              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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