From: the.beez.speaks@gmail.com   
      
   On 25-05-2024 04:27, dxf wrote:   
   > I still remember BASIC code being characterized as 'spaghetti'.  FORTRAN was   
   > similarly critiqued for its lack of structure.   
   And rightfully so. I once wrote a version of "VENTURE" for my then   
   "stringless" and "unstructured" uBasic/4tH and it's very hard to read or   
   maintain. Nowadays it both has strings and structure and those programs   
   are much easier to read and maintain. I agree there is really something   
   to it.   
      
   > And of course Forth, its   
   > 'stack juggling' and 'write-only' nature.  Scratch a little deeper behind   
   > these and one finds someone with an agenda.  'But wait, I have a solution'   
   > they'll tell you.   
   You're claiming here I got an agenda? You're suggesting I think I'm   
   gonna be a millionaire because - in your eyes - I present "the   
   definitive solution" to a notorious Forth problem? Really? A nearly dead   
   language? Because face it: c.l.f is a retirement home.   
      
   FYI - I'm not saying that Forth is a "write only" language. I've been   
   maintaining and expanding (IMHO) non-trivial programs for DECADES.   
      
   > Off-hand I can't think of newbie forth code that's a disaster such as you've   
   > described.  I do recall being impressed by newbies who were plainly serious   
   > about their coding.  They may have missed optimizations regular forth coders   
   > would see in a pinch.  But certainly none of the mass of ROTs and SWAPs   
   that's   
   > become an [undeserved] cliche for forth coding.   
      
   Vs."The newbie referenced earlier is a professional programmer". That is   
   "A newbie" not "newbIES". I can't say that has any statistical significance.   
      
   And yes, it's undeserved. That was what the whole video was all about, duh!   
      
   > I happened to be revising a medium-sized app.  Written several years ago and   
   > essentially undocumented I could still navigate my way around.  According to   
   > critics - within and without forth - I shouldn't have been able to read my   
   own   
   > code.   
      
   I'm not one of them. I made that perfectly clear. I have a simple rule:   
   if I can't figure out how things work OR I'm unable to maintain it, I   
   rewrite it. It happened once or twice - and I think it's a good rule.   
      
   Hans Bezemer   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)