From: janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com   
      
   On 21.10.2025 11:27, BGB wrote:   
   > On 10/20/2025 9:19 PM, Janis Papanagnou wrote:   
   >> On 20.10.2025 23:44, BGB wrote:   
   >>> [...]   
   >>>   
   >>> And the seemingly often overlooked practical distinctions between the   
   >>> design of serious/implementation languages and light-duty script   
   >>> languages,   
   >>   
   >> An interesting distinction, though I'm [not] exactly sure what you have in   
   >> mind when saying "light-duty" here.   
   >>   
   >> One commonly used script language that I use on a daily basis is the   
   >> Unix Shell. Is that "light-duty" in your categories? (Not for me, to   
   >> be sure.)   
   >>   
   >   
   > Well, one can define "Scripting" as well.   
   >   
   > So, we have:   
   > Shell scripts, which typically work with files and invoke programs;   
   > Languages like Perl or Python, which are often used for standalone tools;   
      
   I'm writing "standalone" shell programs as well. - Of course I may   
   thereby be relying on existing functions/programs, as I'm in other   
   "non-scripting" languages relying on libraries. I'm using files,   
   communication methods, connecting cooperating entities, whatever.   
      
   > Languages which are primarily used within the context of some other   
   > program to implement behaviors within that program.   
      
   ???   
      
   I don't think your try to "define scripting" by three languages as   
   example, and completely arbitrary statements, is useful in any way.   
   (I recall some time ago I had looked up what Wikipedia has to say   
   here; the many aspects provided there might give a better feeling   
   about some typically considered factors, and its vagueness. - Does   
   that justify not applying CS/IT standards when writing programs?)   
      
   > [...]   
   >   
   >> In some courses I gave in the 1990's my dogma had always been (and   
   >> still is) to approach "scripting" as [seriously] "programming"!   
   >> And apply all the software development principles also when writing   
   >> programs in "scripting" languages.   
   >>   
   >   
   > It depends a lot on what you are doing.   
   >   
   > If it is something where software engineering practice matters,   
      
   (Your last statement sounds so horribly absurd!)   
      
   This is what I'm actually saying; that "software engineering practice"   
   matters in these ("both") cases, because they're not really different   
   if you want to write correct, maintainable, effective, efficient, and   
   reliable software!   
      
   I see that quite some folks obviously have different aspirations, and   
   I observe also that software quality varies significantly with that.   
      
   One is free to sacrifice methods of "software engineering practice" to   
   have a comfortable time when writing "script programs". - If anything   
   fails just (re-)defined what you mean by "scripting" and be satisfied.   
   It doesn't justify sacrificing professionality in software development.   
      
   > [...]   
   >   
   >>>   
   >>> Or, in effect:   
   >>>    C, C++, C#, Java, etc:   
   >>>      Mostly sensible designs for implementation languages.   
   >>>      Where: Language you would actually use for non-trivial code.   
   >>>    BASIC, Emacs Lisp, etc:   
   >>>      Sensible for script languages.   
   >>   
   >> (You're probably talking about newer BASIC dialects. - But there's   
   >> anyway so many different BASIC dialects existing that it wouldn't   
   >> appear to me to choose this thing in the first place.)   
   >>   
   >   
   > The more recent BASIC dialect I dealt with were along the lines of, say:   
   >   INPUT "Give number between 1 and 10"; X   
   >   IF X<1 THEN GOTO OUTOFRANGE   
   >   IF X<=5 THEN GOTO ONETOFIVE   
   >   IF X<=10 THEN GOTO SIXTOTEN   
   >   GOTO OUTOFRANGE   
   >   ONETOFIVE:   
   >   PRINT "X is between 1 and 5, X="; X   
   >   END   
   >   SIXTOTEN:   
   >   PRINT "X is between 6 and 10, X="; X   
   >   END   
   >   OUTOFRANGE:   
   >   PRINT "X is not between 1 and 10, X="; X   
   >   END   
   >   
   > [ etc. etc. ]   
      
   With your (IMO inapt) distinction above I wonder what sort of   
   "scripting" you do with BASIC without sophisticated access to   
   files/file-system, programs/processes, signals, OS in general,   
   and less "legacy" but contemporary (1970's) control constructs,   
   and more powerful methods to organize your data, for example.   
      
   Janis   
      
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