From: smirzo@example.com   
      
   D  writes:   
      
   > On Wed, 19 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote:   
   >   
   >> D  writes:   
   >>   
   >> [...]   
   >>   
   >>>> Quite mysteriously, all sorts of otherwise respectable open-source   
   >>>> software developers are happy to use GitHub even though it's owned   
   >>>> by M$. So even having ditched their software long ago, M$ are now   
   >>>> very hard to avoid online if, ironically, you want to use, and   
   >>>> especially work on, open-source software. I find that truely   
   >>>> unfathomable, but others barely seem to see my problem with it.   
   >>>   
   >>> This is a great mystery to me! I have no clue how so many open source   
   >>> users can be so clueless! =( They also loooooove slck and   
   >>> discord. That's revolting! IRC works percectly fine, and if you need   
   >>> blinken lights, you can just add some of the numerous web IRC programs   
   >>> out there, or at least use matrix or xmpp.   
   >>   
   >> Lol---well said.  (I call Discord a Christmas Tree.  And Slack is no   
   >> different.)  Quite right.  And USENET, which is way more appropriate for   
   >> technical discussion than IRC.   
   >   
   > It is strange that usenet has disappeared from the common mind. I find it   
   > excellent! Especially since google disconnected it got even better!   
      
   That's right!  Thanks, Google Inc., for leaving us alone. :)   
      
   > There is a challenge though. In todays reincarnation, I find the nr of posts   
   > more than manageable. But if I think of a scenario where the nr of posts   
   would   
   > increase tenfold, there would be no chance of catching up, except using the   
   > narrowest of the narrow sorting based on author and subject line.   
   >   
   > Today, I can casually browse and glance at most posts, but with 10x the nr of   
   > posts, that would not be feasible.   
      
   I already find it unwieldy.  But I don't think we have to follow every   
   thread.  You can follow that subthread you got yourself involved.  Using   
   Gnus, there are two things that I do.  Articles that I'd like to   
   follow-up are ticket---so appear in red for me.  Articles that were   
   replies to my own posted articles get the highest score and so they   
   appear in bold.   
      
     https://0x0.st/8Tsq.png   
      
   I ticked your article just to show you something red.  It wasn't red   
   before.  Yes, I also only show three letters for each author because I   
   usually don't care to know who I'm talking to, but since identity does   
   help to understand what the person is saying, three letters is enough.   
      
   > I think there is a limit where the usenet model breaks down for most users   
   who   
   > are not into cli clients.   
      
   Yeah.  It's not going to work for regular people.  However, there's   
   something that I think it should work for regular people---low volume   
   NNTP servers.   
      
   But it turns out that even mailing lists don't work for regular people   
   because e-mail doesn't work for regular people.  Even Discord or Slack   
   doesn't quite work for regular people.  Perhaps nothing works for   
   regular people.  They do not find ways to tame information on their   
   computer screens.  Regular people don't want to use desktops anymore;   
   they want to use their phones.   
      
   NNTP, the USENET, e-mail, these are systems that only the people thristy   
   for knowledge really use---that 17% of your class of 35.   
      
   >>> I think the reason must be that many open source users are young and   
   >>> naive and do not remembre how M$ tried to close down linux decades   
   >>> ago.   
   >>   
   >> That's very likely part of the reason.   
   >>   
   >>> When I teach, I make it a point to bring up these things. Sadly the   
   >>> students then go on to work, and get stuck in github and various   
   >>> proprietary tools. But such is life! We must continue to fight the   
   >>> good fight. =)   
   >>   
   >> Teaching can only go so far.   
   >   
   > In every class of about 35, there's always 4-9 or so that "get it" and become   
   > completely obsessed with the terminal, self-hosting, they buy numerous   
   raspberry   
   > pis, they stay awake until 5 in the morning tinkering.   
   >   
   > Those guys go on the become rock stars!   
   >   
   > The rest go to the office at 09 and leave at 17, and that's about it.   
      
   And I think that's fine for us because these about 6 people of every   
   class of 35 is enough to pack the USENET.  But most of them are not   
   here.  That's what's sad.  They should be here.  They would enjoy being   
   here.  But I think somehow they're not.  This suggests a certain   
   inertia.  But what I find more likely is that you're overestimating.   
   Perhaps it's more like 0.35 rock stars in every class of about 35.   
      
   I take it seriously that they could be right---that somehow we should   
   all be on Discord.  But, no, intelligence always wins and the fact is   
   that the tools we're using here (for communication) is absolutely   
   better[1] than the more recent commercial alternatives.   
      
   [1] Better for fact, knowledge seekers.   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)