From: smirzo@example.com
D writes:
[...]
>> Yeah. It's not going to work for regular people. However, there's
>> something that I think it should work for regular people---low volume
>> NNTP servers.
>
> Leafnode I think would be quite a nice piece of software for small, local
nntp
> servers.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leafnode
>
> I use part of its functionality to pull in usenet into my mail client.
I need to look into leafnode again. Now I don't think leafnode can peer
with a USENET server, right? I think we should have a server that does.
I'm willing to write it.
My desire is to have an NNTP server that can host your local groups
there, easily. And your friends who will connect to see your local
groups should also see some USENET groups along with them. So the NNTP
server should also be able to peer with a USENET server. Doesn't need
to be a powerful server like INN2 does. All in one.
I would be surprised if INN2 doesn't do all of this, but I think we
should have other alternatives with newer ideas too. For instance, I
think these smaller servers should be mostly closed (with passwords or
cryptographic keys or certificates) because they're meant for a group of
friends who know each other. Each user should be able to create local
groups and new accounts, forming a small community. (A good community
is one in which every member has roughly the same powers as every other
member.) This small community should have access to the USENET (by
using their very community server). That's roughly the idea. The
server should be hackable; perhaps hackable in real time; so a dynamic
language seems the right fit for it.
>> But it turns out that even mailing lists don't work for regular people
>> because e-mail doesn't work for regular people. Even Discord or Slack
>> doesn't quite work for regular people. Perhaps nothing works for
>> regular people. They do not find ways to tame information on their
>> computer screens. Regular people don't want to use desktops anymore;
>> they want to use their phones.
>
> This is the truth! I am worried that people are turning more into digital
> consumers than digital producers. used in such a way, digital technology can
> become a drain on the soul.
>
> Computers were supposed to be creative tools! I get the feeling that for
many,
> they have instead become devices of slavery. It is a very sad development. I
> love text only interfaces, I love reading. I don't own a smart phone and I
feel
> very sad when I'm on a bus or in a subway car and see 99% of people staring
in
> silence into their phones. It seems like quite a dystopia for me. =(
It's sad indeed. On the bright side, we seem to be immune to that. At
least *we* are not in such a pit. :) Better than nothing. :)
>> NNTP, the USENET, e-mail, these are systems that only the people thristy
>> for knowledge really use---that 17% of your class of 35.
>
> I wonder if they will discover it? I was happy when I offered a 1 hour free
and
> voluntary session with the topic of learning the basics of vim, and 11 out
of 35
> said it was interesting! =D
They find it interesting. But it seems to stop there.
> This makes me feel hope!
Honestly, I've only had this hope when I was a teenager myself.
>>> In every class of about 35, there's always 4-9 or so that "get it" and
become
>>> completely obsessed with the terminal, self-hosting, they buy
>>> numerous raspberry
>>> pis, they stay awake until 5 in the morning tinkering.
>>>
>>> Those guys go on the become rock stars!
>>>
>>> The rest go to the office at 09 and leave at 17, and that's about it.
>>
>> And I think that's fine for us because these about 6 people of every
>> class of 35 is enough to pack the USENET. But most of them are not
>
> This is the truth! Hmm, maybe I should add an hour or two next semester on
the
> topic of retro-computing? ;)
Lol. Why not? :)
>> here. That's what's sad. They should be here. They would enjoy being
>> here. But I think somehow they're not. This suggests a certain
>> inertia. But what I find more likely is that you're overestimating.
>> Perhaps it's more like 0.35 rock stars in every class of about 35.
>>
>> I take it seriously that they could be right---that somehow we should
>> all be on Discord. But, no, intelligence always wins and the fact is
>> that the tools we're using here (for communication) is absolutely
>> better[1] than the more recent commercial alternatives.
>
> Well, I do sometimes chat on my business partners mattermost, but only if
live
> audio/video and email is not an option. Fortunately for me, that turns out
to be
> about once or twice a year. ;)
>
> But the young whipper snappers do chat happily away from time to time, and I
am
> happy that they are just not dragging me into it.
>
> Only today was one of my younger partners telling the class that my emails
are
> quite something to behold. Long and packed with all the information the
person
> needs to perform the task. At first he found it draining and stressful, but
then
> he learned that I do not demand instant replies when I email (then I call or
> write in the email that it is urgent) and after a while he learned to
appreciate
> that all information he might need is in the email.
Yeah---young people don't quite get e-mail. They never read about
e-mail. Perhaps one thing that's against them (and it was not against
us) is that they have a lot of options today. We didn't have this many
options. We started out on a simpler world. So we were able to stay at
the top of the game over the years. And so we mastered it. Now we're
experienced and we handle the complexities of the world with the help of
our experience. They don't have these tools available. They could get
here quickly, but they're lost. Instructions we give them don't
suffice: perhaps because people must discover things for themselves.
That's perhaps why education only works for those who actually don't
need one.
--- SoupGate-DOS v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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