From: smirzo@example.com   
      
   D  writes:   
      
   > On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote:   
   >   
   >> D  writes:   
   >>   
   >> [...]   
   >>   
   >>>> Yeah.  It's not going to work for regular people.  However, there's   
   >>>> something that I think it should work for regular people---low volume   
   >>>> NNTP servers.   
   >>>   
   >>> Leafnode I think would be quite a nice piece of software for small,   
   >>> local nntp   
   >>> servers.   
   >>>   
   >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leafnode   
   >>>   
   >>> I use part of its functionality to pull in usenet into my mail client.   
   >>   
   >> I need to look into leafnode again.  Now I don't think leafnode can peer   
   >> with a USENET server, right?  I think we should have a server that does.   
   >> I'm willing to write it.   
   >   
   > I think you are right. It doesn't peer, but it does pull selected   
   > groups and latest posts from a "real" nntp server.   
   >   
   > However!   
   >   
   > It saves all messages in a local spool folder, and since nntp is a   
   > nice and simple retro-protocols, it is trivial to understand the   
   > format. So what you could do, between 2 leafnode servers, is to just   
   > reverse engineer the format and "copy" the spool directory between the   
   > two leafnode installations and all the messages will pop up on the   
   > other leafnode as well.   
      
   Okay, but the question was to just to confirm my mostly-forgotten   
   recollections of Leafnode.  I wouldn't mind working on it to make it   
   peer via NNTP itself.  But I would much rather write a completely new in   
   a non-C language.   
      
   >> I would be surprised if INN2 doesn't do all of this, but I think we   
   >> should have other alternatives with newer ideas too.  For instance, I   
   >   
   > The reason I did not go the INN2 route was that I wanted some small   
   > and simple, for pulling messages one way only. Leafnode at first had   
   > some restrictions such as needing a valid DNS name which was a pain,   
   > so I simply deleted its checks, and now the server can be named   
   > anything I want, which is fine, since I'm not peering. This can of   
   > course be added back if you want it.   
      
   I never used INN2, but I do suspect that it's made for a serious USENET   
   server and that it's more complex that it needs to be for the idea of a   
   network of small NNTP servers.   
      
   >>> Only today was one of my younger partners telling the class that my   
   >>> emails are quite something to behold. Long and packed with all the   
   >>> information the person needs to perform the task. At first he found   
   >>> it draining and stressful, but then he learned that I do not demand   
   >>> instant replies when I email (then I call or write in the email that   
   >>> it is urgent) and after a while he learned to appreciate that all   
   >>> information he might need is in the email.   
   >>   
   >> Yeah---young people don't quite get e-mail.  They never read about   
   >> e-mail.  Perhaps one thing that's against them (and it was not against   
   >> us) is that they have a lot of options today.  We didn't have this many   
   >> options.  We started out on a simpler world.  So we were able to stay at   
   >> the top of the game over the years.  And so we mastered it.  Now we're   
   >> experienced and we handle the complexities of the world with the help of   
   >> our experience.  They don't have these tools available.  They could get   
   >> here quickly, but they're lost.  Instructions we give them don't   
   >> suffice: perhaps because people must discover things for themselves.   
   >> That's perhaps why education only works for those who actually don't   
   >> need one.   
   >   
   > I think is perhaps somewhat of a downward trend. I feel awe when   
   > talking to the older generations who had to learn the hardware,   
   > program in assembler and so on.   
      
   I feel the same.  Like you, I feel great learning from the older   
   generations.  In fact, I often think that they were privileged for being   
   able to be there first.  I identified this easily enough to develop a   
   passion for studying the history of computer science, which makes me   
   look very old now because I use a lot of very old tools, which are   
   awesome tools despite their age.  I got a web post by Joel Spolsky the   
   phrase that ``software doesn't get dusty''.   
      
   > In my generation, hardware and assembler were solved problems, so the   
   > programming was done in higher level languages.   
   >   
   > Todays generation don't even see the hardware, they all use cloud   
   > servers and python.   
   >   
   > So the original foundation gets further and further away. Only a small   
   > set of hw wizards still care and know about that layer of the stack.   
      
   That's quite right.  I went through the same.  The whole thing was   
   pretty much already done.  I believe I am not very fond of directly   
   interacting with hardware myself.  For example, I usually like to have a   
   very clean office---no wires (if I could), not a lot of gadgets around.   
      
   Nevertheless, I feel obsessed by computers and I try to get close to the   
   hardware by more abstract means.  For instance, I've been reading about   
   the 6502 and it seems like such a simple CPU that it makes up for a very   
   great computer architecture first introduction, unlike x86, say.   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)