From: nospam@example.net
On Mon, 24 Feb 2025, Rich wrote:
> D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 23 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote:
>>
>>>> This is very interesting! What was it that the student thought was
>>>> crazy complicated compared with git?
>>>
>>> Not compared to git. They did not get to see git. They just hated
>>> fossil to the point of almost giving up on the whole course
>>> altogether. Very likely they knew that other courses would give
>>> them the same credits and they could try it afresh on the next
>>> semester.
>>
>> Ahh, got it! Yes, sadly this happens to me as well. At the
>> slightest hint of difficulty or effort, about 20% of the class riots,
>> complains to the school that the teacher is evil, that the difficulty
>> level should be lowered etc.
>
> The result of 20+ years of "everyone gets a participation trophy, and
> no winners are declared" parenting.....
This is the truth! You are a philosopher king! In sweden, they stopped
scoring goals in football for children. When I was a child, and you were
bad at foot ball, you sat on the bench. Then you found another sport that
you actually had some aptitude for. Much better system if you ask me, and
also an experience that teaches valuable life lessons early!
>> They do not realize, that the only ones they are cheating by doing
>> that are themselves.
>
> They lack the wisdom that comes with age to recognize this fact. Some
> of them will wise up early enough to be able to succeed. The rest will
> be set for "table waitress with master's degree" careers.
True!
>> The sad thing is that business owners (including myself) have noted a
>> dramatic drop in skill from graduates over the past 3-4 years. One
>> reason is that the government has changed the funding of the schools,
>> rewarding schools that pass all students. So of course, the schools
>> pass all students, since it means more money for them (they are paid
>> by the government upon graduation) and you get the situation where
>> awful students graduate, and now, where companies no longer hire
>> them.
>
> Pass them all along has been more the norm here in the US for a quite
> long time, as it is easier to just push them up (then out) than it is
> to actually try to devote the time to find out how to educate them.
> The result is huge numbers of table waitresses with master's degrees.
Again, this is the truth!
>> Usually in order to buck the trend somewhat, I make my first course
>> more difficult in order to get rid of the unmotivated ones. If I
>> don't have the first course of the semester, the following 1-2 are
>> pure hell, since the bad ones remain and complain about everything,
>> but after 1-2 semesters they usually quit. It is just sad that I
>> could not make them realize this after 3 weeks, and instead they
>> waste 1-2 semesters. But such is life.
>
> Provided you can withstand the heat, this is the best option. Clear
Amen! I started to study engineering, and I could not stand the heat. I
discovered that physics and math was extremely boring. I could push
through by sheer force of will, but after 1 years I realized... why?
Wouldn't it be better to study something I actually enjoyed?
So I switched to IT and philosophy, and lo and behold! Since I was
interested in it, it didn't even feel like it was hard. I just sailed
through!
I feel sorry for the ones who suffered through 2.5 years of math to get 1
year of computer science at the end.
> out the ones unfit as early as possible. I still remember the carnage
> of the freshman Engineering courses when I went through. Began with
> 120+ students per lecture. End of each of both semeters could see the
> shrinkage. Start of second year and more than half were no longer
> anywhere to be seen in the courses. Sadly, I can only imagine what
> kind of complaints would be going to the dean's office now 40 years
> later for such carniage in the first year.
Severe complaints! The cruel irony is... do a good job at a school, and
you'll be kicked out for failing too many students. This has happened to
me.
My revenge was when the school told me... you know, there is something
very strange with your program. I said... what?
The students who graduate from your program, all have jobs in IT, and
their salaries are all way above the average starting salary.
But your program is the program where 40% drop out.
In our other programs, 100% graudate. But only 50% work in IT, and they
have very low salaries.
I cannot understand how they could not see cause an effect.
>>> This experience gave me the following feeling---they ask for
>>> real-world, pratical experience, but they're not up to an
>>> introduction to the tools used in the real-world.
>>
>> True. But from time to time it is fun to see when they really "get"
>> the terminal. It's such an eye opening experience for them, and
>> they, themselves become completely amazed at what they can do with a
>> computer all of a sudden! One guy told me he had no idea and it was
>> amazing the day he understood the terminal concept. He went on to
>> become a rock star! Those students are what makes it worth it for
>> me.
>
> And he was someone who *should* have been in that course. Many of the
> others were likely only present because they had been told the degree
> was a magic paper towards a big salary (while omitting that they have
> to know what the F they are doing for the magic paper to gain them the
> big salary).
Haha... yes, reminds me of one of my teachers at a school, and on the
first day they had an open question session. One arabian gentleman
asked...
"Hey you... what's the salary? Will I be rich when I'm done?"
The teacher: I'm X, you can call me X, that's perfectly fine."
He: "What ever... what's the money?"
The teacker: Sigh.... "if you are good, you earn well, if you are bad,
find another program."
The student looked dissatisfied with the answer. ;)
--- SoupGate-DOS v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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