From: smirzo@example.com   
      
   D  writes:   
      
   > On Thu, 27 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote:   
   >   
   >>> Excellent! I wonder if it can replace mbsync nicely as well? Would be nice   
   to   
   >>> have fdm handle both my mbsync (so sync imap folders to local   
   >>> laptop) _and_ to   
   >>> take care of news posts! I can easily see how the filters would take care   
   of   
   >>> sorting the posts from various newsgroups into their respective folders in   
   my   
   >>> mail client.   
   >>   
   >> I'm not a user of mbsync, but if you use mbsync just to download mail   
   >> from an IMAP server, then certainly fdm can replace it.   
   >   
   > Excellent! As an added bonus, I would then get off mbsync. I think the   
   creator   
   > of mbsync was woke, and changed master/slave to something I no longer   
   remember   
   > in the code, in order not to offend people. Complete nonsense!   
      
   Lol.   
      
   >>>> daemons.  But it turns out that's the only thing about systemd that I   
   >>>> ever liked.  And even then I changed my opinion.  Daemons are not really   
   >>>> meant to be managed by regular users; if there's any user that should   
   >>>> have the right to run a daemon, then they should have sysadmin powers,   
   >>>> even if specifically just for the task at hand.  Bottom line: it's a   
   >>>> neat thing that it does, but it might not quite be a real need.   
   >>>   
   >>> I agree! That's the problem, it tries to be too neat, and to do too   
   >>> much. In the   
   >>> end you have this horrible monolithic kludge that will probably   
   >>> crash due to its   
   >>> complexity, and take the system with it.   
   >>>   
   >>> Another thing I intensely dislike with it is the long and   
   >>> convoluted syntax of   
   >>> the commands. I mean just look at "ls"... it's beautiful! And "l"   
   >>> followed by an   
   >>> "s"! =D   
   >>>   
   >>> Now look at this horrible mess: "systemctl list-timers" Yuck!   
   >>   
   >> Yeah---there's a fine line between incrementing language and sticking   
   >> with the previous, well-established vocabulary.  That's particularly   
   >> important for hackers because they have an imense amount of vocabulary   
   >> to manage and great fluency is essential to their day-to-day operations.   
   >   
   > Another example from hell for me is powershell. I've never seen such long   
   > command! Microsoft powershell gurus must really enjoy typing!   
      
   Besides, it's yet another shell.  Even if it were really great...  Have   
   you seen Plan9's rc?  It's a very neat shell.  But it's not Bourne's sh.   
   It's hard to overcome the inertia of a large body moving at high speed.   
      
   >> to discuss the operational details of a specific system or software.   
   >> Certainly a UNIX system has its own particularties in their rc scripts,   
   >> but I would spend more time looking at POSIX-sh semantics, style,   
   >> philosophy and history because it's primarily sh scripts that engineer   
   >> the start-up schemes of UNIX systems.  Because then every hacker can use   
   >> that kind of culture to investigate whatever system he's interested in.   
   >   
   > Oh believe me... I've had to _fight_ to keep any resemblance of   
   > teaching basic bash scripting in the linux course. At first students   
   > hate it, but the brilliant ones later on tell me that they actually   
   > picked up a lot of linux while bash scripting, instead of if we used   
   > python or something else. This makes me happy and works as intended!   
   > ;)   
      
   No shell scripting?  Okay---let's investigate a bit how the system   
   works.  ``What's in a name?  A rose by any other name would smell as   
   sweet.''  That's from a teacher I had called Juliet---she was pretty   
   old, born in 1597.  Her father was a famous play writer, whose name was   
   William Shakespeare if I recall correctly.   
      
   >> In other words, I'd go for depth, not immediate working knowledge.   
   >> Every system administrator will have to grind through the manuals   
   >> anyway.  Knowing how to start or stop daemons, say, in a particular   
   >> system would not be terribly useful in a classroom.  Of course, we would   
   >> see how run the commands in whatever system we're using for the   
   >> illustrations at the black board or at the computer lab, but merely to   
   >> see things in motion.   
   >   
   > I wish we could do that... but the amount of teaching hours and focus   
   > on the vocation schools make that very difficult. =(   
      
   I know.   
      
   I also think that we shouldn't interfere so much with nature's course.   
   It's not that we don't care---it's that we respect the group.  Let's let   
   the group follow its ``natural'' course.  It's different when we're the   
   captain; we then steer as we like.   
      
     You can be the captain   
     And I'll draw the chart   
     Sailing into destiny   
     Closer to the heart   
     -- Neil Peart, Peter Talbot, 1977   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)