From: nospam@example.net   
      
   On Fri, 7 Mar 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote:   
      
   >>> Yeah---there's a fine line between incrementing language and sticking   
   >>> with the previous, well-established vocabulary.  That's particularly   
   >>> important for hackers because they have an imense amount of vocabulary   
   >>> to manage and great fluency is essential to their day-to-day operations.   
   >>   
   >> Another example from hell for me is powershell. I've never seen such long   
   >> command! Microsoft powershell gurus must really enjoy typing!   
   >   
   > Besides, it's yet another shell.  Even if it were really great...  Have   
   > you seen Plan9's rc?  It's a very neat shell.  But it's not Bourne's sh.   
   > It's hard to overcome the inertia of a large body moving at high speed.   
      
   Never seen. How does it differ from plain old bash? Inertia is a problem. Many   
   young children I think use zsh on Macs, somehow, bash was what I had when I was   
   young, and it stuck. ;)   
      
   >> Oh believe me... I've had to _fight_ to keep any resemblance of   
   >> teaching basic bash scripting in the linux course. At first students   
   >> hate it, but the brilliant ones later on tell me that they actually   
   >> picked up a lot of linux while bash scripting, instead of if we used   
   >> python or something else. This makes me happy and works as intended!   
   >> ;)   
   >   
   > No shell scripting?  Okay---let's investigate a bit how the system   
   > works.  ``What's in a name?  A rose by any other name would smell as   
   > sweet.''  That's from a teacher I had called Juliet---she was pretty   
      
   True. I'm currently discussing the course plans for the autumn, I think I have   
   a   
   good chance at sneaking in some good old shell through the backdoor. Keep your   
   fingers crossed! =D   
      
   >>> In other words, I'd go for depth, not immediate working knowledge.   
   >>> Every system administrator will have to grind through the manuals   
   >>> anyway.  Knowing how to start or stop daemons, say, in a particular   
   >>> system would not be terribly useful in a classroom.  Of course, we would   
   >>> see how run the commands in whatever system we're using for the   
   >>> illustrations at the black board or at the computer lab, but merely to   
   >>> see things in motion.   
   >>   
   >> I wish we could do that... but the amount of teaching hours and focus   
   >> on the vocation schools make that very difficult. =(   
   >   
   > I know.   
   >   
   > I also think that we shouldn't interfere so much with nature's course.   
   > It's not that we don't care---it's that we respect the group.  Let's let   
   > the group follow its ``natural'' course.  It's different when we're the   
   > captain; we then steer as we like.   
      
   True!   
      
   >  You can be the captain   
   >  And I'll draw the chart   
   >  Sailing into destiny   
   >  Closer to the heart   
   >  -- Neil Peart, Peter Talbot, 1977   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)