From: usenet@phreaknet.org   
      
   On 8/14/2025 1:46 PM, Rich wrote:   
   > InterLinked  wrote:   
   >> On 8/14/2025 8:19 AM, Nyssa wrote:   
   >>> Plus my local (rural) phone lines are crap. I get ~43Kbps   
   >>> on average. It was better when I lived in the Big City.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> If I may ask, which ISP are you using?   
   >>   
   >> I've been doing some testing with several ISPs lately, all of whom   
   >> seem to resell GlobalPOPs these days (including AOL it seems).  The   
   >> top speed I've gotten is 36000 a handful of times, and usually I get   
   >> 31.2 or 33.6 - very difficult to get a V.90 connection anymore.  They   
   >> seem to have done some kind of concentration where they've cheaped   
   >> out on their phone lines, doesn't seem to be real T1s anymore.   
   >   
   > 56k modems running over POTS copper were never "real T1s" -- despite   
   > the fact that the best-case top speed was a fractional T1 speed.   
      
   I'm talking about on the ISP side, not the user side. Traditionally,   
   ISPs would have T1s connected to large digital modem banks (something   
   like a Portmaster 3 or a Patton access), and since it was all digital on   
   their side, they could provide downstream above 33.6.   
      
   > 56k POTS copper modems were a bit of a "hack" that just happened to   
   > work due to legacy design decisions made years prior for the phone   
   > network architecture.  And even with short, clean, copper one almost   
   > never saw the advertised "best case top speed".  Change that copper to   
   > "longer" and "a bit on the older side" and topping out around 35k was   
   > quite normal.   
   >   
   > And most telco's have put zero dollars into any preventive maintence   
   > for the analog copper lines, so today in 2025, assuming one still has   
   > legacy copper lines [1], they are more dirty and noisy than they were back   
   > with 56k modems were the "big new thing".   
      
   This isn't exclusively a telco issue. I have regulated phone service   
   over fiber in my area (what Verizon calls "POTS over fiber" - it's not   
   Digital Voice, which is unregulated; my service is still regulated by   
   the PSC). The overall quality is good, though I'd rather be on copper if   
   it were an option.   
      
    From my line, I have no problem negotiating V.90 with certain test   
   numbers that seem to still be TDM. However, I very rarely can with   
   GlobalPOPs ISP numbers. I've discussed this with a few folks and we   
   believe it's an issue on the GlobalPOPs side, likely some kind of   
   cost-cutting measure. That's why I'm curious to know if there are still   
   truly any independent dial-up ISPs that aren't merely reselling   
   GlobalPOPs. If I could get 43kbps on average, I would honestly be   
   pleased with that result.   
      
   So if you can share the ISP or the access number you're using, I would   
   like to do an experiment, that's all.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)