From: rich@example.invalid   
      
   InterLinked  wrote:   
   > On 8/16/2025 2:13 PM, Rich wrote:   
   >> InterLinked  wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>> I tried a local access number in my area, and connected at 31.2.   
   >>> And sure enough, it appears to be resold GlobalPOPs.  It doesn't   
   >>> look like Dialup4Less has their own dial-up infrastructure.   
   >>>   
   >>> Do you mind sharing the specific access number you are using, and   
   >>> what speeds you usually connect at?  I wonder whether all of their   
   >>> access numbers are deficient, or just some of them.   
   >>   
   >> Your connect speeds over POTS copper is going to be mostly always   
   >> influenced by the "last mile wiring" (i.e., the copper from your   
   >> home to the local exchange building).  So any "deficiency" is very   
   >> likely to exist somewhere in that last bit of copper rather than in   
   >> different ISP POP endpoints.   
   >>   
   >> Once your copper terminates at the exchange, the rest of the phone   
   >> network's all digital, so the analog signals on your wires are   
   >> digitized at that point anyway.   
   >   
   > As I mentioned before, my phone service is over fiber ("POTS over   
   > fiber", as Verizon calls it), so my copper loop is only a few feet   
   > long.  Like most phone people, I don't like fiber, but that's the way   
   > it is.   
      
   I missed that small tidbit of information.  That, then, /may/ indicate   
   that Verizon's ONT does not provide the 'trick' that allowed 56k   
   downloads across copper POTS when that copper terminated at the local   
   phone exchange.  The 'trick' was that there was some way to "turn off"   
   the digital to analog converter at the exchange end so that the digital   
   data from the phone network could also make its way down the copper   
   pair.  If Verizon has ommitted that "feature" in their ONT's, then   
   right about 33k is the maximum you'll get going through the digitizers   
   that convert the POTS analog to/from digital for the rest of the phone   
   network.   
      
   And, I can see Verizon very deliberately omitting the "turn off last   
   mile digital to analog conversion" in their fiber ONT's, for the   
   explicit purpose of encouraging those still using 'dialup' to move to   
   FIOS Internet by restricting the top speed that can be achieved.   
      
   > [Aside: The irony with fiber is that Verizon has cannibalized their   
   > chances of me ever ordering their Internet service, since they refuse to   
   > provide regulated voice and unregulated Internet on the same ONT. Not   
   > that I would be interested in paying for it, but they try to upsell me   
   > on it every time I call in, and two minutes later I have them admitting   
   > that no, I can't order their Internet service without losing my phone   
   > service (being converted to Digital Voice, which I have no interest in).]   
      
   Naturally, they would very much prefer to provide the "unregulated"   
   option, less pesky 'regulations' to have to abide by that way...   
   Note, not saying this is reasonable, just that it is very much in   
   their best interest to do so.   
      
   > I don't have an issue connecting to certain V.90 test numbers (not PPP   
   > Internet), so I don't think it's a quality issue with my phone service.   
   > Therefore, I believe GlobalPOPs is most likely the issue, but I'm trying   
   > to gather more data to prove that, e.g. different access numbers,   
   > different local loop types (fiber, copper, etc.)   
      
   Do you get full 56k speed connects from these V.90 test numbers over   
   your ONT?  If you do, then what I wrote above about Verizon omitting   
   the "V.90" 'trick' in the ONT is not likely the case.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)