XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy   
   From: marion@facts.com   
      
   On Sat, 12 Jul 2025 14:13:44 -0400, WolfFan wrote :   
      
      
   >>> Only on Apple devices is not only privacy impossible, but you need   
   >>> to carry two different devices with you at all times to log into the   
   >>> Apple Account.   
   >>   
   >> No. You don't.   
   >   
   > Nope. under certain circumstances using an AppleID might produce arequest to   
   > enter a six-digit PIN... and all devices with that AppleID get the   
   > notification, including the device you're logging into. (I always thought   
   > that this was stupid, but hey...) The PIN is different for each device, so   
   > Apple knows if you have a second device or if you only have one. If you use   
   > the PIN sent to the device you want to log into, there may be additional   
   > steps to ensure that you're you. Note that this is NOT for logging into the   
   > device itself; that requires the standard login method. All of my devices   
   > have a (different for each one) 10-digit alphanumeric login code, and   
   > face/fingerprint crap is NOT turned on. A third party can't get onto the   
   > device to get to where it asks for an AppleID in the first place.   
      
   Wow. I'm shocked. Really shocked. WolfFan isn't as stupid as I had thought.   
      
   Alan Baker is stupid - but WolfFan actually said something above that I   
   never had tested so I was unaware of the particulars that WolfFan stated.   
      
    *THANK YOU WolfFan for stating something about Apple that I didn't know.*   
      
   If you have an Apple Account with 2FA, which is all new Apple Accounts   
   nowadays, and if Apple asks for a PIN during the login process, then you   
   MUST have a valid way for the 2FA to work, where the current device will   
   also suffice (which, I agree, would be stupid, but hey...).   
      
   In my case, every Apple device that I have is registered to a different   
   (throw-away) Apple Account, but I don't remember ever getting the   
   notification on the DEVICE that I was being forced to log into though.   
      
   So I will test WolfFan's claims that even the device you're using to log   
   into the Apple Account gets that PIN, as I always get the 2FA request on my   
   phone; but the next time I'm forced to log into Apple's servers, I test it.   
      
   THANK YOU WOLFFAN FOR CORRECTING MY INCORRECT ASSESSMENT OF HOW IT WORKS!   
      
   >>> Since all you MAGA zealots are ignorant of everything you speak of,   
   >>> it used to be that you could generate an "Apple ID" without any   
   >>> useful information being supplied. Later, Apple enforced the address   
   >>> had to be real and match the zip code for the Apple ID, but it could   
   >>> be anyone's address and zip code.   
   >>   
   >> This is false.   
   >   
   > Even if it were true... the ZIP would be the ZIP for, for example, the office   
   > for one of the AppleIDs used for business purposes.   
   >   
   > And it's not true as I have _multiple_ AppleIDs which don't have an   
   > address attached.   
      
   I don't know what Alan Baker is trying to say (as anything he says is   
   meaningless anyway) but the loss of privacy with Apple products is due to   
   the fact that you must have a way of proving who you are to Apple in order   
   to download an app (which requires logging into Apple's servers).   
      
   Only Apple makes privacy impossible.   
   Nobody else does that.   
      
   Not Google (Android). Not Microsoft (even Windows 11). Just Apple.   
      *Privacy is impossible if you own Apple products.*   
      
   Don't even get me started if you decide to never log out of an iPad.   
   Apple will eventually unilaterally brick it if you don't re-log in.   
      
   And then you need to produce GOVERNMENT ID for Apple to unbrick it.   
   Ask me how I know this (on two different iPads!).   
      
   Only with Apple products is privacy impossible.   
      
   >>> But as of April of 2019, Apple started requiring that the zip code   
   >>> match the billing address of your credit or debit card, where your   
   >>> billing address could be bogus, but the zip code had to be valid for   
   >>> that address.   
   >>   
   >> Since I don't have to provide a credit or debit card to create an Apple   
   >> Account, this is also false.   
   >   
   > Yep. if no payment info is set up, you don't need an address. Company   
   > devices don't have payment info set up, the users ain't supposed to buy   
   > anything to install on a company device. If necessary, IT department (me)   
   > will temporarily put a payment method onto the AppleID used for company   
   > devices, buy whatever, install it on the devices in question over the network   
   > in any of a half-dozen ways, and take the payment method off the AppleID.   
      
   I wasn't talking about the address. Although you have to product government   
   ID (which has your address) if you don't constantly log into the iOS   
   device.   
      
   I realize you'll say that's not true - but I've tried it with two devices,   
   and I have threads on this from years ago when it happened, so don't say it   
   didn't happen just because you're ignorant of what Apple does under this   
   specific circumstance (which I've tested with two different iPads).   
      
   1. You log into your Apple Account   
   2. And then you never log out   
      
   Watch what happens after two years of never logging back in.   
   You'll get a nag screen to log in ten times a day.   
      
   But if you refuse to log back in (even though you never logged out!),   
   watch what happens.   
      
   I've proved this in prior threads so don't say it doesn't happen just   
   because you've never tried it.   
      
   >>> At that time, 2FA was optional, although there was a lawsuit that   
   >>> Apple won where people who didn't opt out within the required grace   
   >>> period were stuck with 2FA forever.   
   >>   
   >> Cite, please!   
   >   
   > I'd like to hear this one, too.   
      
   Why is it you Apple trolls never heard of a search?   
   It's no wonder you're so ignorant of everything Apple.   
      
   It made headlines years ago.   
   We discussed it on this newsgroup.   
      
   It's no longer shocking how ignorant you are since Alan Baker was on those   
   threads, and now he's already forgotten all about it.   
      
   WolfFan was not on those threads, but still, why can't you trolls search?   
      
   An Apple troll is ignorant for a few reasons, one of which is they never   
   read the news - and yet they deny everything in the news about Apple.   
      
   Look it up. Stop being ignorant of everything about Apple.   
      
   >>> By late 2023, Apple began requiring 2FA for nearly all newly created   
   >>> Apple IDs where there is no opt-out for newer devices. If your   
   >>> device runs iOS 11 or macOS High Sierra or later, 2FA is   
   >>> automatically enabled for new accounts and cannot be turned off once   
   >>> activated.   
   >>   
   >> That is (I believe) true.   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> Keep in mind that on June 11, 2024, Apple changed the terms of the   
   >>> "Apple ID" which they then termed the "Apple Account".   
   >>   
   >> And?   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> As of September 2024, Apple expanded 2FA availability to nearly   
   >>> every country and region, making the 2FA requirement a global   
   >>> standard.   
   >>>   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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