From: Jeff@invalid.invalid   
      
   On 07/11/2025 04:24, Marion wrote:   
   > Privacy: How to decouple GPS navigation from cellular geolocation.   
   >   
   > In other words, how to decoupled GNSS navigation from tower geolocation.   
   > This "trick" forces Google Maps to runs with satellite-only positioning.   
   >   
   > Hotspot phone:   
   >   Exposes only tower metadata + IP, but no GNSS/location apps.   
   > Privacy phone:   
   >   Exposes only GNSS fixes, with traffic masked behind the hotspot's IP.   
   >   
   >   
   >   Both phones are set to:   
   >   Wi-Fi scanning: OFF   
   >   Bluetooth scanning: OFF   
   >   Google Location Accuracy: OFF   
   >   No Google account and Location History: OFF   
   >   
   > With these settings, the location teardrop tile state affects:   
   > a. Whether apps can use GPS for location   
   > b. But we have to have "Use precise location" on for each app to use GPS   
   >   
   > With these settings, the cellular data tile affects   
   > a. Just that the IP address can be geolocated   
   >   
   > With these settings, the Wi-Fi tile state does not change   
   > a. What's uploaded to Google (i.e., zero Wi-Fi APs)   
   > b. What's used for location (i.e., zero Wi-Fi APs)   
   > c. But if it connects to open access points, it can be geolocated   
   >   
   > So turn off any capacity to accidentally connect to open APs   
   >   Settings > Connections > Wi-Fi > 3dots > Intelligent Wi-Fi   
   >    Switch to mobile data = on (affects data geolocation)   
   >    Switch to better Wi-Fi networks = on (affects wifi geolocation)   
   >    Turn WI-FI on/off automatically = off (grayed out)   
   >    Detect suspicious networks = on <== warning for open networks!   
   >   
   > Settings > Connections > Wi-Fi > 3dots > Advanced settings   
   >   Network notification = off (ignore requests from open networks)   
   >   Manage networks (forget any open networks you've ever joined)   
   >   
   > Unfortunately, on Android 13, you cannot selectively disable   
   > cell-tower-based location while still using the cellular network.   
   > a. The cellular tile will allow cell-tower fused location   
   >   
   > We can disable Wi-Fi and Bluetooth scanning, but there's no   
   > equivalent toggle for disabling cell tower scanning other than   
   > turning off the cellular voice tile (which isn't practical).   
   >   
   > The only trick I can think of is to have two phones in the car.   
   > a. Privacy phone (cellular data & cellular voice turned off)   
   > b. Hotspot phone (serving a hotspot over cellular data)   
   >   
   > In this case, Google Maps on the privacy phone sees only GNSS-based   
   > location and the cellular IP of the hotspot phone. Google Maps on   
   > the privacy phone cannot see cell-tower IDs.   
   >   
   > In summary, the privacy advantage of the two-phone system is that   
   > a. There is no cell tower geolocation possible on the privacy phone   
   >     Because its cellular radio is OFF, it never registers with towers.   
   >     That means no tower IDs are available for coarse location.   
   > b. Location is purely GNSS (satellites) + on-device sensors.   
   > c. Google sees the hotspot phone's cellular IP address   
   >   
   > The advantage is that you decouple navigation from cellular geolocation.   
   > a. Google Maps on the privacy phone sees only satellite-based location   
   >     and the hotspot's geolocatable IP, not tower IDs.   
   > b. This setup prevents tower-based location leaks on the privacy phone   
   >     while still giving the privacy phone navigation app internet access.   
   > c. Google Maps sees the hotspot phone's cellular IP address as the source   
   >   
   > The hotspot phone is essentially just a data pipe whose location services   
   > don't feed into the privacy phone's GNSS-only navigation.   
   >   
   > GNSS navigation is isolated on one device, while tower metadata stays on   
   > the other. Both are never fused into the navigation session.   
      
   That's a good summary. I wondered about how something like GrapheneOS   
   would deal with this issue, and came across this:   
      
      
   Looks interesting, but it is almost 3 years old, and phone OSs are   
   constantly changing. Then I found a comment from earlier this year which   
   somewhat puzzles me. See   
   :   
   "We're in the process of building our own network location database   
   based on scraping all of the cell tower and Wi-Fi data from Apple's   
   service."   
      
   I had no idea that GrapheneOS was using Apple info. Do the other   
   "degoogled" Android OSs also use Apple info?   
      
   If we get well OT and look at PinephoneOS, etc, then perhaps somewhere   
   GeoClue will be running. At least we don't have to worry about the   
   Mozilla Location Service, as that's been discontinued.   
      
   I guess I /might/ just be able to leave that tinfoil hat in its box... ;-)   
      
   --   
   Jeff   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)