From: commodorejohn@gmail.com   
      
   On Tue, 23 Dec 2025 20:38:19 -0000 (UTC)   
   Lawrence D’Oliveiro  wrote:   
      
   > > For myself, I am entirely comfortable saying that overwrought,   
   > > kludgy, and (especially) abusive patterns are *objectively bad web   
   > > design,* in the same way that the people in charge of Grenfell Tower   
   > > were engaging in objectively bad architectural renovations ...     
   >    
   > Boy, what a way to escalate a strawman, conflating a matter of mere   
   > aesthetics and personal annoyance with a situation that was actually   
   > life-threatening on a massive scale.   
      
   *A.* that's not what a straw-man argument is (that'd be if the behavior   
   in question were not actually evidenced in real life - but I cited very   
   real patterns and gave a specific IRL example, and can absolutely offer   
   more,) and *B.* while I freely admit to using a hyperbolic comparison   
   to make a point, the point is one I stand by:   
      
   Arguing that web design is purely a matter of taste and objections to   
   specific practices are Just, Like, Your Opinion, Man is, essentially,   
   arguing that the design and implementation of systems for use by the   
   general public is something where there are no real standards and no   
   consequences to shoddy workmanship. This is, as the Kids These Days   
   say, a *bad take.*   
      
   Obviously, having trouble with a misbehaving website is a smaller thing   
   than burning to death in a badly-renovated apartment building.* But   
   even in the little things - every pointless extra step, unneccessary   
   delay due to lazy, inefficient implementation, thing that has to be re-   
   done thanks to a buggy form, or irritating search for a feature buried   
   under baroque UI or incompatible CSS is seconds - minutes? hours? - off   
   of *someone's* life, maybe multiple someones', maybe *many people's.*   
      
   * (Though I'd note that far too many emergency-services departments and   
     healthcare providers are farming their online presence out to the   
     lowest bidder, these days, and it's distinctly possible that there's   
     a real-world death toll for that. And for that matter, I'd bet that   
     the ever-increasing disenfranchisement of People Without Smartphones   
     by utility companies has had IRL impacts on people's well-being. Or   
     how about that major overhaul of Australia's Bureau of Meteorology   
     website, for a nice recent and highly-publicized example? People can   
     absolutely die thanks to buggy or inaccessible weather services.)   
      
   In a very low-key kind of way, shoddy workmanship is statistical murder.   
   Nik Suresh wrote a piece on that theme, some years ago, and it's stuck   
   with me ever since: https://ludic.mataroa.blog/blog/i-killed-superman/   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)