From: tnp@invalid.invalid   
      
   On 19/01/2026 08:54, Marc Haber wrote:   
   > Lawrence D´Oliveiro  wrote:   
   >> In NZ, and I presume in Germany, too, the company that manages the   
   >> physical fibre connection is not an ISP, and is not allowed to become   
   >> an ISP.   
   >   
   > No, in Gemany the fiber optic company can be the ISP as well, and in   
   > some situations they are not even required to allow competitors on   
   > their network. That requirement only appears if the line owner's   
   > market share is so high that it is considered dominant.   
   >   
   > That's really bad, since especially the smaller fiber companies don't   
   > have much clue about to run a network, to install connections at scale   
   > and to keep a decent service both regarding moving packets and fixing   
   > problems. The one thing that the fiber companies can to well is lying   
   > at the customer, for example sending sales people from door to door   
   > with the news that the residents MUST buy fiber because their DSL will   
   > be turned off and decommissioned "later this year" and that they will   
   > be without Internet if they don't sign up with the fiber company.   
   >   
   > We already had that issue with DSL 20 years ago and didn't learn   
   > anything from that. The DSL companies have learned their ropes, so   
   > there is hope that the fiber companies will, eventually.   
   >   
   > Greetings   
   > Marc   
      
   Things are far better in the UK.   
   The main supplier of fibre is a spin off of the original telecoms   
   nationalised industry - Post office=>British Telecommunications => BT   
   Openreach.   
      
   The regulatory authority tips it a lot of government money but it must   
   - ensure that virtually everybody gets > 20Mbps service   
   - make the fibre network available to any ISP *at the same price* it   
   charges its parent company, BT.   
   - Not favour its parent in any way in terns of support.   
      
   In practice it is the most  profitable division of BT.   
   Openreach's purlieu ends with an Ethernet socket  - the router as such   
   is connected to that, and nay or may not be supplied by the ISP.   
      
   I am with a smaller independent ISP known for excellent technical   
   support  - in practice all I did was set up a PPPoE link on the   
   'internet' facing Ethernet port and that was that.   
      
   Other fibre suppliers are less regulated, I think.   
   But the key separation of 'last mile' transport of packets, from the   
   Internet services provider has proved very beneficial.   
      
   Consumer droids buy the cheap shit with virtually no support, from large   
   companies, technical people buy slightly higher priced products from   
   companies offering better technical support.   
      
      
   --   
   “Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of   
   a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”   
      
   Dennis Miller   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)