XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy   
   From: ahlstromc@xzoozy.com   
      
   Tom Shelton pulled this Usenet face plant:   
      
   > on 12/22/2010, Homer supposed :   
   >> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:   
   >>>   
   >>> Nor do you.  You'd shit your pants if someone said to you, "Here's vi,   
   >>> gdb, make, and gcc.  Now go code."   
   >>   
   >> He's utterly, utterly clueless.   
   >>   
   >> Eclipse is not the complete production system one needs to go from zero   
   >> to release using an automated workflow. It's just an IDE with plugins,   
   >> that one must use interactively, useful for those who like the "visual"   
   >> approach to programming, but quite useless for the sort of automated   
   >> workflow used in proper buildsystems.   
   >>   
   >> Of course, the same is true of amateur slopware like Visual Studio.   
   >   
   > LOL.. it appears to me that everyone in this entire thread is   
   > completely clueless about automated build systems on windows.   
   > Including whoever wrote the original quote.   
      
   Uh, Tom, I never mentioned anything for or against automated build systems   
   on Windows.   
      
   Although I will say that Hudson is a pretty good framework for running an   
   automated build system that will work on Windows or Linux -- no Team   
   Foundation stuff needed, except for the command-line msbuild app.   
      
   > It is simply not true that it takes a lot of effort to setup an   
   > automated build system on windows, nor does it take a lot of money.  It   
   > DOES take some knowledge - though, it's not that great a learning curve   
   > if you have any programming knowledge at all...   
   >   
   > I've setup several build servers - both at home and at work - and I've   
   > never spent a dime (well, beyond the cost of the actual windows   
   > system).   
   >   
   > svn+CC.NET+(msbuild and ant)+windows sdk+a little powershell   
   >   
   > and I build everything from my teams cross platform app server written   
   > in C++ (runs on windows, aix, and linux), all our web stuff (C# and   
   > Flex).  Run unit tests, get code metrics, and push builds with the push   
   > of a button.   
   >   
   > The fact is that the whole premise is flawed.  And if you want to spend   
   > money, there is always TFS, which is even easier to setup.   
      
   Unfortunately, Tom, you've hijacked the thread, wherein amiscum said build   
   tools on Linux were crap, and I simply say it is bullshit.   
      
   But then you redeem yourself with the note about your team's cross-platform   
   app server.   
      
   I get a bit of a wry laugh from people on both sides who claim the other   
   side's tools are crap.  Both sides have their strengths and weaknesses.   
   Personally, I prefer to do it myself, adding script where the work is   
   tedious.   
      
   --   
   Largest Number of Driving Test Failures   
   	By April 1970 Mrs. Miriam Hargrave had failed her test thirty-nine   
   times.  In the eight preceding years she had received two hundred and   
   twelve driving lessons at a cost of L300.  She set the new record while   
   driving triumphantly through a set of red traffic lights in Wakefield,   
   Yorkshire.  Disappointingly, she passed at the fortieth attempt (3 August   
   1970) but eight years later she showed some of her old magic when she was   
   reported as saying that she still didn't like doing right-hand turns.   
   		-- Stephen Pile, "The Book of Heroic Failures"   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)