XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy   
   From: tom_shelton@comcast.invalid   
      
   Chris Ahlstrom explained :   
   > Tom Shelton pulled this Usenet face plant:   
   >   
   >> on 12/22/2010, Homer supposed :   
   >>> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Nor do you.  You'd shit your pants if someone said to you, "Here's vi,   
   >>>> gdb, make, and gcc.  Now go code."   
   >>>   
   >>> He's utterly, utterly clueless.   
   >>>   
   >>> Eclipse is not the complete production system one needs to go from zero   
   >>> to release using an automated workflow. It's just an IDE with plugins,   
   >>> that one must use interactively, useful for those who like the "visual"   
   >>> approach to programming, but quite useless for the sort of automated   
   >>> workflow used in proper buildsystems.   
   >>>   
   >>> Of course, the same is true of amateur slopware like Visual Studio.   
   >>   
   >> LOL.. it appears to me that everyone in this entire thread is   
   >> completely clueless about automated build systems on windows.   
   >> Including whoever wrote the original quote.   
   >   
   > Uh, Tom, I never mentioned anything for or against automated build systems   
   > on Windows.   
   >   
   > Although I will say that Hudson is a pretty good framework for running an   
   > automated build system that will work on Windows or Linux -- no Team   
   > Foundation stuff needed, except for the command-line msbuild app.   
   >   
      
   I've heard good things about hudson, but haven't tried it.  I've been   
   using CC.NET for a while, but that's basically cruise control, and that   
   works under both linux and windows.   
      
   >> It is simply not true that it takes a lot of effort to setup an   
   >> automated build system on windows, nor does it take a lot of money.  It   
   >> DOES take some knowledge - though, it's not that great a learning curve   
   >> if you have any programming knowledge at all...   
   >>   
   >> I've setup several build servers - both at home and at work - and I've   
   >> never spent a dime (well, beyond the cost of the actual windows   
   >> system).   
   >>   
   >> svn+CC.NET+(msbuild and ant)+windows sdk+a little powershell   
   >>   
   >> and I build everything from my teams cross platform app server written   
   >> in C++ (runs on windows, aix, and linux), all our web stuff (C# and   
   >> Flex).  Run unit tests, get code metrics, and push builds with the push   
   >> of a button.   
   >>   
   >> The fact is that the whole premise is flawed.  And if you want to spend   
   >> money, there is always TFS, which is even easier to setup.   
   >   
   > Unfortunately, Tom, you've hijacked the thread, wherein amiscum said build   
   > tools on Linux were crap, and I simply say it is bullshit.   
   >   
      
   I wasn't repsonding to your post :) I was responding to Homers.  He was   
   taking about automation.   
      
   > But then you redeem yourself with the note about your team's cross-platform   
   > app server.   
   >   
   > I get a bit of a wry laugh from people on both sides who claim the other   
   > side's tools are crap.  Both sides have their strengths and weaknesses.   
   > Personally, I prefer to do it myself, adding script where the work is   
   > tedious.   
      
   Well, it was never my claim that linux tools were crap - because I   
   don't feel that way.   
      
   What I was specifically objecting to was the original implication that   
   it was "difficult and expensive" to setup a build environment under   
   windows.  It's simply not true.  I addressed automation specifically,   
   because I was replying to Homer.   
      
   --   
   Tom Shelton   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)