XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy   
   From: tom_shelton@comcast.invalid   
      
   It happens that Chris Ahlstrom formulated :   
   > Tom Shelton pulled this Usenet face plant:   
   >   
   >> Chris Ahlstrom presented the following explanation :   
   >>   
   >>> One thing I don't like about Windows dev tools is how they inexorably push   
   >>> you towards Windows-only applications and towards the way of doing things   
   >>> the way Microsoft wants them done.   
   >>   
   >> Chris, I in no way mean to insult you - but, that's just not true.   
   >   
   > I take it you have never used Visual Studio, then?   
   >   
      
   Of course, I use it almost every day.  I just don't agree with that   
   sentiment that it forces you to do anything.  There is very little that   
   can not be customized - and you don't actually have to use it if you   
   don't like it.  Personally, I like the way VS works (and eclipse,   
   though I don't use it much - except when I have to help out on some of   
   the flex stuff).  Having the refactoring tools, the intellisense,   
   autocomplete, etc makes coding a lot quicker.   
      
   Everyone has their preference, and no one is forcing you to use VS I   
   take it.   
      
   >> And even if it were true - it doesn't make the original claim any less   
   >> bogus, because other then msbuild no part of my build tool chain is from   
   >> Microsoft.  And msbuild could easily be removed for ant or nant (I already   
   >> use ant for building our flex projects on windows).   
   >>   
      
   hmm... That isn't quite accurate :)  I do use ms compilers in the build   
   chain for the .net and c++ stuff...  Can't easily get rid of those :)   
      
   >>> And the jargon!  The Microsoft jargon!  Delegates, boxing/unboxing,   
   >>> sealing, indexers, and so much more, hijacking well-known concepts from C++   
   >>> and replacing them with different terms, mostly just to be *different*, it   
   >>> seems.   
   >>   
   >> No one is forcing you to use .NET (well, unless your targeting the   
   >> xbox360 or wp7) - all of thse terms are specific to .NET.   
   >   
   > Actually, I'm encountering them in a book on C#.  Haven't even gotten to the   
   > .NET section yet.   
   >   
      
   Well, the terms are interchangeable really.  A delegate is a delegate,   
   if your doing C#, VB.NET, or C++/CLI.   
      
   And it's not to be *different* - these concepts have specific   
   functionality in a managed environment...   
      
   >> C++ is still there...  Remember?  One of the projects I build is a cross   
   >> platform app server written in C++?   
   >   
   > I applaud you for pushing back against Microsoft's push to make one think   
   > that C++/CLI == C++.   
      
   C++/CLI is a C++ language extension, not C++.  There is even a standard   
   around it now (maybe still in the works).  I tend not to use it much -   
   though, I have found it occasionally useful for creating dll's for   
   non-.net apps that needed to use .net functionality.   
      
   --   
   Tom Shelton   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)