XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy   
   From: voodoo@tootycar.net   
      
   On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 16:17:05 -0400, amicus_curious wrote:   
      
   > "voodoo"  wrote in message   
   > news:4d98b5e6$0$15326$c3e8da3$460562f1@news.astraweb.com...   
   >> On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 12:44:33 -0400, amicus_curious wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> "voodoo"  wrote in message   
   >>> news:4d9743fa$0$11308$c3e8da3$cc4fe22d@news.astraweb.com...   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>> that is right. there is no reason to demean the success of paying   
   >>>> poor african darkie countries to join iso to vote in the ooxml   
   >>>> standard. that was just good solid innovative marketing that any   
   >>>> company, say google, would do. if only they had the smart cookies at   
   >>>> the top to think of it.   
   >>>>   
   >>> You are not being very clear here, voodoo.  Are you just ranting with   
   >>> no purpose?   
   >>   
   >> what? i am agreeing with you. that does not happen very often for you   
   >> in this forum so your confusion is understandable. microsoft is   
   >> successful. buying the iso votes of poor african countries is not a   
   >> reason to demean that success.   
   >>   
   > I still don't see where that is anything close to an agreement with my   
   > statement, voodoo, but you at least had the sensitivity to delete the   
   > reference to "darkie" from your second try.   
      
   whats in a name? in this case it is an aid for getting into the heads of   
   the microsoft executives that put their minds to work and came up with   
   this wonderfully creative plan.   
      
   this is part of the bounteous success that microsoft enjoys and, as you   
   said, Lawrence D'Oliveiro doesnt. this iso experience is just one aspect   
   of the smart, creative activities that microsoft has engaged in over the   
   years to climb to the top of their industry. you are praising one part.   
   but you are forgetting all the other grinding hard work that goes on. dont   
   be so shy about singing all of microsofts glories to the heavens.   
      
   >>> The sense of it all is that you seem to be saying that Microsoft was   
   >>> unethical in lobbying for their standard to be adopted in addition to   
   >>> others.   
   >>   
   >> there is lobbying and then there is lobbying.   
   >>   
   >>> But did you mean to imply is that "african darkie countries" should   
   >>> have no say in the matter?   
   >>   
   >> not at all. they have every right to sell their iso vote to the highest   
   >> bidder.   
   >>   
   >>> Or are you saying that any   
   >>> attempt to persuade others to accept your point of view is somehow   
   >>> unethical?   
   >>   
   >> not at all. microsoft has every right to put their bid in. they were   
   >> the high bidder. in fact, weren't they were the only bidder? how much   
   >> do you figure they paid? what form was the payment in? windows vouchers   
   >> won't mean much in places where software piracy is widespread. did   
   >> these countries stay off that list of top ip pirate countries that came   
   >> out recently?   
   >>   
   >>> Or is it only unethical if that point of view differs from your own?   
   >>> Try to be a little more specific in the future!   
   >>   
   >> is buying the iso votes of a few countries unethical? no crime was   
   >> involved, no laws broken. the whole episode was just good old fashioned   
   >> innovative marketing. just like i said earlier.   
   >   
   > Did anyone actually buy any votes at all?  Certainly the impoverished   
   > FOSS fans will attribute bribery and worse to Microsoft's promotions   
   > since they have nothing to offer themselves and anything involving   
   > salaries or direct compensation is seen as dirty pool.  Honestly, I do   
   > not recognize your reference at all, I can only presume that one or more   
   > of the African members of the ISO committee voted in favor of some   
   > Microsoft proposal.   
      
   yes. absolutely right. after decades of slothful indolent inactivity, all   
   these nations just happened to recognize their duty to their local   
   industry ... no, the whole world ... and joined the iso's documentation   
   standards group. they realized that by voting for microsofts position   
   that all of word processing will be a better place. and this was all done   
   without bribes to government officials.   
      
   these countries, who showed no interest in the subject before msxml,   
   never participated in the standards process, suddenly woke up and bought   
   voting memberships in the relevant iso department. and after minimal   
   participation (did they actually _do_ anything besides vote?) they lost   
   interest and dropped out of sight. yessir, all very normal. all within   
   the rules. yep. on the up-and-up.   
      
   dfs, ummmm being just dfs, believes this. flatfish would say this just to   
   yank the chains of half the people here. but you? did you acquire an   
   interest in fantasy?   
      
   > Since these members are people working in the   
   > business that they oversee for standards issues and revisions, it is   
   > quite likely that many were Microsoft employees, since Microsoft is very   
   > prominent in the software businesses.   
      
   how many do you suppose are knowledgeable about document standards? about   
   iso standards process? do any document standards work in their own   
   country? some even got to do a proxy vote of a neighbor country! very   
   international stuff.   
      
   do you think they are enraged or even disappointed that microsoft has   
   lost interest in their standard and will not change their product to   
   follow it? that would be besides the "yeah! i am a big fat bonus richer."   
   kind of disappointment. i could be disappointed too for the right price.   
      
   > I was once involved with EIA standards and all of the members were from   
   > various companies that were affected by the standards that were written.   
   > It frequently happened that a new standard was just a recognition of   
   > one company's overwhelming success in some area or another.   
      
   did the "winner" follow the standard after it was voted in? did the   
   "winner" tweak his product to follow the standard? standards frequently   
   change between proposal and the final vote.   
      
   those fools in the iso went and changed microsofts perfect standard   
   proposal. those twits think the date calculations should be correct   
   instead of following microsofts fine work. you know, they tweaked the   
   proposal. they changed things. heh! those iso goofballs think they, not   
   microsoft, own the standard now. they will soon be set straight.   
      
   > I don't see anything wrong with that,   
      
   once again, did the "winner" follow the new standard?   
      
   > particularly if patent protection is thereby   
   > removed from use of the standard.  I think that was the case with the MS   
   > Word document format in question.   
      
   you should ask a friend in the business about that patent stuff. i heard   
   that the patent protection only went as far as following the exact   
   released spec. anything in the annexes and supplements, the "do it like   
   word95" stuff was _not_ covered.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)