From: arne@vajhoej.dk   
      
   On 2/23/2025 1:21 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:   
   > Lawrence D'Oliveiro   wrote:   
   >> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 15:56:43 +0900, David Meyer wrote:   
   >>> Have all the MACRO and BLISS programs been ported to C or C++, or will   
   >>> they be in the future?   
   >>   
   >> I hear there is this new language called “Java”, that is supposed to   
   take   
   >> over from C++ ...   
   >   
   > When Java first came out, I had this image in my head of a bunch of   
   > managers sitting around a table asking "What can we do to make computers   
   > more slow?  How can we sell people on more expensive hardware?"  "I know,   
   > we can get the UCSD P-System for the new millennium!"   
      
   Java 1.0.2 was probably rather similar to P-System regarding   
   hardware usage.   
      
   But if enough money is spent then problems get solved.   
      
   If we look at the traditional JVM problems:   
      
   byte code interpretation is slow - got fixed with JIT compilation   
   25 years ago, on VMS x86-64 the JVM JIT compiler is one of the   
   best optimizers   
      
   the JVM has many MB of memory as overhead - became irrelevant   
   when price of RAM dropped to a few dollars per GB   
      
   generational GC is very efficient at average but it has   
   horrible real time characteristics due to the dreaded   
   ms GC pauses - got fixed via special JVM's like Azul   
   Zing (with pauseless C4 GC) and in mainstream with the introduction   
   of ZGC that changed pauses from ms to us, we are still waiting   
   for ZGC on VMS though (we should get the non-generational   
   ZGC with Java 17 relative soon and the generational ZGC   
   with the next release 21 or 25)   
      
   huge upstart time due to JVM initialization and JIT   
   compilation - got fixed when AOT compilation was   
   introduced with Graal (Spring Boot Native, Quarkus   
   etc. all use Graal AOT), note that Graal is not available   
   on VMS and I have heard no indication that VSI is considering   
   porting it   
      
   None of this solved itself by magic. But Sun, IBM, Oracle etc.   
   put hundreds of thousands of man years into making it happen. So   
   it happened.   
      
   P-System had 2 problems: hardware was rather limited in its time   
   and nobody wanted to spend money on it like money was spent on JVM.   
      
   Arne   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)