From: news@alderson.users.panix.com   
      
   Simon Clubley  writes:   
      
   > On 2025-04-03, Arne Vajhøj  wrote:   
   >> On 4/3/2025 2:15 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:   
   >>> On 2025-04-01, Arne Vajhøj  wrote:   
   >>>> He looks at size 6.2 -> 7.2 -> 8.2 -> 9.2 and .mar vs .c 6.2 -> 9.2.   
      
   >>>> https://vmssoftware.com/resources/blog/2025-03-31-how-big-is-vms/   
      
   >>> How the hell does DCL have 30,000+ lines of code ? :-)   
   >>> (Even allowing for the fact most of it is in Macro-32)   
      
   >> Just for fun I downloaded bash and counted. 117 KLOC.   
      
   > Wow. I had no idea it was now that big. OTOH, bash has got a _lot_ more   
   > functionality in it than DCL does.   
      
   >>> Also, regarding those BLISS/Macro-32 figures across the various modules   
   >>> in general, I wonder how much smaller the code would have been if it had   
   >>> been written in C ?   
      
   >> C is a relative high LOC/FP language.   
      
   >> Most LOC/FP tables have C in the 100-125 range and macro-assembler   
   >> in the 200-250 range.   
      
   >> If we adjust for VAX instructions being more powerful/complex   
   >> than average ISA, add a random number and subtract wind speed I   
   >> will estimate the Macro-32 / C ratio to be around 1.5-1.75.   
      
   >> If you buy that then the DCL 33 KLOC would be 19-22 KLOC in C   
   >> to be compared with bash 117 KLOC.   
      
   > The problem with that analysis is what DCL does.   
      
   > It basically parses, validates, and executes commands it has been given.   
   > That is something which can be implemented a lot more easily and concisely   
   > in a HLL with abstracted data structure capabilities (which includes   
   > even C) than an assembly language with no such capabilities.   
      
   That also depends on the operating system environment.   
      
   TOPS-20, on later PDP-10 systems including clones, has a built in system call   
   COMND% which is a fully capable command parser which includes context sensitive   
   help, switch parsing, etc.   
      
   High-level languages on TOPS-20 have COMND% calls in their run time systems.   
      
   --   
   Rich Alderson					  news@alderson.users.panix.com   
         Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,   
   	  omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.   
   									--Galen   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
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