From: bill.gunshannon@gmail.com   
      
   On 7/12/2025 10:41 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:   
   > On 7/12/2025 9:35 AM, bill wrote:   
   >> On 7/11/2025 8:16 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:   
   >>> The idea of a 1:1 port is usually bad. Yes - you can implement the   
   >>> exact same flow of your Cobol application in Java/C++/Go/C#,   
   >>> but that only solves a language problem not an architecture problem.   
   >>   
   >> The biggest problem with this the idea of going from a domain specific   
   >> language to a general purpose language.  While you can write an IS in   
   >> pretty much any language (imagine rewriting the entire government   
   >> payroll currently in COBOL in BASIC!!) there were real advantages to   
   >> having domain specific languages.  But then, no one today seems to even   
   >> consider things like efficiency.  Just throw more hardware at the   
   >> problem.   
   >   
   > That argument made sense 40 years ago, but I don't think there   
   > is much point today - the modern languages have the features   
   > the need like easy database access and decimal data type and   
   > the missing features like terminal screen and reporting are no   
   > longer needed.   
      
   Jack of all trades, master of none.   
      
   >   
   >>> You need to re-architect the solution: from ISAM to RDBMS,   
   >>   
   >> This is the only one I totally agree with but the original problem   
   >> had nothing to do with the language.  It had to do with the fact that   
   >> RDBMS wasn't around when COBOL was written.  I have been doing COBOL   
   >> and RDBMS since 1980 and it was old code when I got there.   
   >   
   > True.   
   >   
   > But it is still a relevant example of where 1:1 will go wrong.   
      
   No one thinks 1:1 is a good idea.  Many of us think converting to   
   a different language, any different language, is not a good idea   
   and carries with it risk that need not be taken.  Using the logic   
   that conversion is always a good think, why is anyone still on VMS?   
   Why do people stay on VMS?  Because in many cases it is the right   
   tool for the job.  The same can be said about "legacy" languages.   
      
   >                                                                If   
   > you have a Cobol system using ISAM files, then do not want to convert   
   > it to a Java/C++/Go/C# system using ISAM files.   
      
   If you have a COBOL program using ISAM today it should have been   
   converted to DBMS years ago.  That does not imply that it should be   
   converted to JAVA/C++/Go/C#.  Unless we are talking about trivial   
   programs, like balancing your checkbook, there are many potential   
   problems in moving a well functioning "legacy" program to a new   
   language.  And to be totally honest, no apparent value.   
      
   >   
   >>> from vertical app scaling to horizontal app scaling,   
   >>   
   >> Not really sure what this means.  :-)   
   >   
   > You can call it cluster support.   
   >   
   > If you run out of CPU power, then instead of upgrading from a   
   > big expensive box to a very big very expensive box then you just   
   > add a cluster node more.   
      
   OK.  But I don't see what that has to do with it being written in COBOL.   
   Or are you saying that IBM Systems don't scale?   
      
   >   
   >>>                                  
    Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  from 5x16 to   
   >>> 7x24 operations etc..   
   >>   
   >> Certainly don't get this.  Every place I ever saw COBOL was 24/7 and   
   >> that is going back to at least 1972.   
   >   
   > I would be surprised if you have never experienced a financial   
   > institution operating with a "transaction will be completed   
   > next day" model.   
      
   I get that now.  That has nothing to do with IT and everything to do   
   with people and their being more "legacy" than the IS.  I am finally   
   starting to see change. My last automatic payment from DFAS wasn't   
   really due until a Monday, but the funds showed up on a Saturday.   
   Even things that once ran only nightly as "batch" are now processed   
   almost immediately.  But the people still only work 8 hours a day 5   
   days a week and it is them that cause the apparent lag in most IT   
   processing.  Used to be systems went offline for 6-8 hours for backups.   
   Today if they go offline at all it is for seconds to minutes.  But, none   
   of this was ever related to the language an IS was written in and   
   rewriting it in JAVA/C++/Go/C# is not going to improve anything.   
      
   bill   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)