From: arne@vajhoej.dk   
      
   On 7/16/2025 8:26 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:   
   > What the ORM does (as the name implies!) is to handle the mapping   
   > between the object model and the SQL statements.   
   >   
   > You give it a query and it translate that into one or more SELECT   
   > statements, read the result and stuff it into the object model.   
   >   
   > You tell it to persist an object and it translate that into one   
   > or more INSERT statements.   
   >   
   > For complex object models having that stuff done automatically   
   > save a ton of code.   
   >   
   > It is cutting 50-75% of the database access code. And most business   
   > applications has a lot of database access code.   
   >   
   > It is not a silver bullet. There are a couple of caveats.   
   >   
   > 1) It only makes sense if you have an object model. If your code   
   >     operate on lists, maps/dictionaries and basic data types, then   
   >     there is no point in ORM.   
   >   
   > 2) There need to be at least one on the team with more than   
   >     basic skills in the ORM. Any developer can do the queries   
   >     and updates. But putting the annotations/attributes (or the   
   >     equivalent XML mapping for older ORM) on the domain classes   
   >     require deeper skills for any non-trivial case.   
      
   And if we try and go back to VMS (this is comp.os.vms!), then   
   if we are to look at what ORM is available on VMS.   
      
   JVM languages (Java, Groovy, Jython etc.)   
   -----------------------------------------   
      
   No problem.   
      
   JPA API and Hibernate works fine.   
      
   You will need different versions on Alpha (Java 5) and   
   Itanium/x86-64 (Java 8).   
      
   I have posted list of jar files before.   
      
   PHP   
   ---   
      
   Doctrine works fine.   
      
   I cannot get composer to work on VMS, but:   
   * run composer on PC to require doctrine/orm and symfony/cache   
   * ZIP vendor tree   
   * transfer and UNZIP on VMS   
   works fine.   
      
   Python   
   ------   
      
   My preferred ORM for Python is SQLModel. Which is based   
   Pydantic and SQLAlchemy.   
      
   It works fine on *nix and Windows.   
      
   But pip install fails on VMS. At least on my VMS system.   
   It hangs in some infinite loop creating temporary files.   
      
   I assume that it is due to both Pydantic and SQLAlchemy   
   containing native modules.   
      
   My Python module skills are not good enough to fix it.   
      
   Arne   
      
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