From: arne@vajhoej.dk   
      
   On 10/30/2025 4:19 AM, gcalliet wrote:   
   > It's the point, Simon. And somehow Chris says the same thing comparing   
   > development for VMS and for z/os.   
   >   
   > And again, if we agree on your opinion viewing VMS as some rich embedded   
   > OS, again VMS/XDE is worth it.   
   >   
   > And again and again, my view is and has always been VMS-specific. VMS as   
   > a specific general OS, indeed.   
   >   
   > It seems now, because the strategy used by VSI or its investor has been   
   > for ten years a strategy copied on strategies for legacies OS (like z/   
   > os...), the option of a VMS revival as an alternate OS solution is   
   > almost dead.   
   >   
   > And so VMS/XDE is a good way making business for five or six years   
   > before the real death of VMS. (Because in my opinion, there is no future   
   > for an embedded VMS : not its real market, not competitive in the   
   > embedded market).   
      
   Companies do not have computers (virtual or not) to run an OS.   
      
   They have computers to run applications.   
      
   Applications are created by developers.   
      
   It does not matter if it is:   
   * in house developers   
   * COTS developers at an ISV   
   * open source developers   
      
   (it is my impression that VMS very much rely on the first category   
   for VMS sales)   
      
   Remember when Steve Ballmer a couple of decades ago shouted "developers   
   developers" at a .NET conference?   
      
   He was laughed at, but he actually had a point.   
      
   Developers are important for an OS!   
      
   So if customers and potential ISV's are telling VSI that   
   developers do not want to work on VMS but want to work   
   on a PC, then VSI has to listen.   
      
   It seems fair to assume that is what has happened.   
      
   I am personally fine writing code in EVE in a VT emulator   
   and write code on PC and FTP a ZIP up to VMS to build and   
   test. I am sure you are fine with that as well. But the   
   future is not with gray haired people. The future is with   
   the 20-40 yo developers.   
      
   And if they want to use Eclipse or one of the JetBrains IDE's,   
   then that is it.   
      
   VMS is better off having developers writing code for VMS   
   on a PC than having companies dropping VMS, because   
   applications are not being developed.   
      
   That said then I am not even sure that it is a technical   
   thing - it may be a managerial thing. I don't think current   
   VMS usage model is difficult - I expect any young developer   
   above the hopeless level to be able to use Putty and   
   learn a few DCL commands and to FTP files between PC   
   and VMS. But if management has a perception that it is   
   a problem, then it is a business problem for VSI.   
      
   > Perhaps it's cool to develop on Linux something for VMS. But, because   
   > the licensing is the same ostage-like-for-legacies, I'm not sure we'll   
   > get any interest from new  generations of developers.   
   As I understand it then it is not about saving license cost, but   
   about tool availability.   
      
   VSI support VS Code (VMS IDE), but developers are pretty   
   diverse when it comes to favorite IDE's and editors. They   
   want Eclipse, CLion, PyCharm, PHPStorm, GNU Emacs, Notepad++,   
   Cursor, Zed etc.. With this model developers can use their   
   favorite tool.   
      
   Arne   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)