From: bill.gunshannon@gmail.com   
      
   On 12/1/2025 8:31 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:   
   > On 12/1/2025 8:15 PM, bill wrote:   
   >> On 12/1/2025 8:06 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:   
   >>> But last century then Cobol and Basic were the two easiest   
   >>> languages to learn and Cobol was one of the languages with   
   >>> most jobs. So it seems likely that a large number of bad   
   >>> programmers picked Cobol. Bringing bad habits with them.   
   >>>   
   >>> Today I would expect that crowd to pick client side JavaScript   
   >>> and server side PHP.   
   >>>   
   >>> There is also something in the Cobol language.   
   >>>   
   >>> Large files with one data division, lots of paragraphs   
   >>> and lots of perform's is easy to code, but it is also   
   >>> bad for reusable code.   
   >>>   
   >>> It is sort of the same as having large C or Pascal files   
   >>> with all variables global and all functions/procedures   
   >>> without arguments.   
   >>>   
   >>> It is possible to do it right, but when people have   
   >>> to chose between the easy way and the right way, then ...   
   >>   
   >> I take it you have never worked in a real COBOL shop.   
   >   
   > That is true.   
   >   
   > I was with the Fortran people not the Cobol people.   
      
   I did Fortran, too.  Often in the same department (and with the   
   same rules) as the COBOL.   
      
   >   
   > But that does not change that:   
   > * back in those days   
      
   Exactly what do you consider to be "back in those days"?   
      
   >                       then there were some people   
   >    doing Cobol that should not have - this is widely   
   >    known -   
      
   Not widely known in the circles I worked in.  If I were not a   
   competent COBOL programmer I would have been eliminated.   
      
   I once worked in a government facility.  They have strange HR rules.   
   We had a woman who was totally incapable of writing a coherent COBOL   
   program.  Because it was government she could not be fired.  So she   
   came in everyday and read the newspaper because our boss refused to   
   let her touch any code.   
      
   The only other bad example I came in contact with was work done by   
   contractors who had no idea how to do COBOL and DBMS.  I came in   
   many years after they had done their damage and fixed it all.   
   But that was in more recent times.  In COBOL's heyday the programmers   
   were a lot better than most programmers I see today.   
      
   >            I believe the not so nice name for them   
   >    back then was "list programmers" (I was told about   
   >    that by a Cobol programmer when I took the DEC course   
   >    VMS for Programmers back in the mid 80's)   
   > * PERFORM of paragraphs is not a good way to   
   >    write reusable code   
      
   Matter of opinion.  In most of the shops I worked we reused a lot   
   of code.  We had librarians who were responsible for maintaining   
   both the executable and source libraries.   
      
   bill   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)