From: arne@vajhoej.dk   
      
   On 12/2/2025 10:47 PM, Craig A. Berry wrote:   
   >                                                             how it   
   > came about, and what other plans there are for it, if any.  It seems   
   > unlikely to me that it was made expressly for use in a development   
   > environment that doesn't really provide any new capabilities.   
   >   
   > Much was made of the fact that with VMS/XDE you can use Linux tools to   
   > operate on your code files directly and then not have to move them to a   
   > VMS system to compile them.  But the same would be true if the files   
   > lived on decently-working NFS or SMB shares on a real VMS system. And   
   > moving the files really isn't that hard, and would be even easier if an   
   > rsync implementation were available.   
   >   
   > Much was also made of the fact that you can, for example, run a VSCode   
   > task that starts up a new instance of VMS/XDE and runs a build procedure   
   > within it using native VMS tools. But you can do the same thing with an   
   > SSH command to a real VMS system.   
   >   
   > There was a list of DECset tools that were state-of-the art decades ago   
   > alongside modern Linux equivalents in order to make the point that   
   > people have different expectations now for how to do development.  But   
   > other than code editing and version control integrated into the IDE,   
   > VMS/XDE doesn't meet any of those expectations.   
   >   
   > There are no Linux tools that can analyze and profile your object code   
   > or images, and you can't use Linux make utilities to build your code,   
   > nor Linux test frameworks to test your code unless those tools have been   
   > ported to VMS. Or unless each command generated by the make utility or   
   > test framework starts a new instance of VMS/XDE and runs a native VMS   
   > command, which would be extraordinarily cumbersome. You can't run the   
   > VMS debugger unless your Linux IDE has an extension to run a remote   
   > debugger (and a suitable debugging agent exists on VMS).  Again, no   
   > advantages here for VMS/XDE over a real VMS system.   
   >   
   > The emulation of the system services and RTLs sounds like some pretty   
   > neat engineering, but surely they didn't do all that for an IDE that   
   > doesn't really offer anything new?   
      
   I assume the logic is something like the following.   
      
   Premise #1 = VSI need applications for VMS to sell VMS licenses - the   
   IT department does not get approved purchase of VMS so the IT department   
   can run VMS - the IT department get approved purchase of VMS so   
   that the VMS system can run production control system, accounting   
   system, inventory system, personnel system or whatever.   
      
   Premise #2 - to get those applications then developing for VMS must   
   be let us say not too hard. Does not matter if the development is   
   COTS, open source or in house development. The VMS developers over   
   let us say 50 typical have a long history on VMS and do not have   
   a problem working split on PC and VMS. Many of the younger developers   
   do not have much history with VMS and there is a desire to make   
   it easier for them to do more of the work on PC.   
      
   I completely buy premise #1. I am more skeptical about premise #2.   
   Younger developers do know how to work in a terminal. And DCL   
   is not hard to learn at the level required for a developer. But   
   let us say that senior management at VSI's customer push premise #2.   
   Right or wrong then it is customer wish. And first rule of business   
   is that the customer is always right.   
      
   I consider VMS IDE to be VSI's first attempt to deliver that. It   
   is basically VS Code with support for VMS languages and under   
   the hood SSH connectivity to VMS. I think it is fair to say that   
   VMS IDE has not been a huge success. VS Code is the worlds most   
   widely used IDE/power-editor, but there are still lots of   
   developers preferring other tools.   
      
   So now they make a second attempt with XDE. From a purpose   
   perspective and a high level technical perspective it is   
   very similar to WSL (WSL allows you do Linux dev on Windows,   
   XDE allows you to do VMS dev on Linux, the implementation   
   is somewhat similar to WSL 1). WSL is a very popular option   
   for developers. Trying to do something similar seems justified.   
      
   Whether it becomes a success is still to be seen. I think it   
   will require aggressive pricing to make it widely used.   
      
   Arne   
      
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