XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone   
   From: marianjones@helpfulpeople.com   
      
   Alan Browne wrote:   
   >>>> If you understood the code you'd know that the WPS DB returns the lat/lon   
   >>>> as a 64bit integer and the python script converts into a float with a   
   >>>> simple multiplication  of 1e-8. Anything beyond the 8th dp is noise.   
   >>>   
   >>> Where a GPS position in Lat/Long (base 10 real*) is concerned, anything   
   >>> beyond the 5th dp is noise in almost all cases including SBAS aided.**   
   >>>   
   >>> Even beyond the the 4th dp, it is likely noise in most cases.   
   >>>   
   >>> If Lat is represented as a fraction of a semi-circle, then a signed 32   
   >>> bit integer is more than adequate for general purposes.   
   >>> Likewise Longitude as a fraction of a circle.   
   >>> (LSB=0.0046...m and 0.0093...m respectively - though you could represent   
   >>> Lat as a circle as well at the loss of 1 bit of resolution).   
   >>>   
   >>> *by real I mean number line real, not computer language "real" type.   
   >>>   
   >>> **(Excluding survey RTK measurements - which are baseline lengths, not   
   >>> L/L but might be tied to a precise L/L - there 1cm+1mm/km error is common)   
   >>   
   >> All of which goes against Arlen's desperate attempts to prove that one can   
   be   
   >> "tracked by a router". When the reality is that all one can track is the   
   >> router. Which is meaningless.   
   >   
   > There are literally 100's of thousands of router locations (WiFi) that   
   > are available in databases with their locations well known.  Any   
   > receiver (including smartphones) can have apps that use the GPS to "tag"   
   > a WiFi label with the position where it was detected.  The error in   
   > position being where the detecting radio (smartphone or other) was when   
   > it found that WiFi. (SSID).   
   >   
   > This can be on any system - whether Apple did so or contributed to such   
   > - I don't know.   
   >   
   > It's a meaningless complaint, regardless of who is doing it.  As in all   
   > such things: if there is an outcome that "can" happen - it assuredly   
   > "will" happen.   
   >   
   >   
   >> In yet another desperate attempt to make Apple "look bad".   
   >   
   > Par.  Ignore it.   
      
   To your concern that privacy is a "meaningless complaint", I would say the   
   same if I found my access point in Google's or Mozilla's public WPS DBs.   
      
   Besides, I am not arguing about decimal places, GPS math, or the precision   
   of the stored coordinates that any of these public WPS databases employ.   
      
   I accept explanations in this thread about integer storage & conversion.   
   None of that is the point I am raising because my point is privacy.   
      
   My overwhelming concern is that my own access point has nomap in the SSID   
   and is also hidden, yet it still appears in the Apple WPS database with   
   coordinates attached. That means the access point was collected and stored   
   despite the opt-out flag and despite not broadcasting the SSID. That is a   
   privacy issue, not a numerical one.   
      
   Apple is doing the antithesis of what Apple advertises that it's doing.   
   Apple even lied to Congress, as far as I know, about what it's doing.   
      
   That's a problem.   
    a. It's a moral problem (where morality is internal to Apple)   
    b. It's a legal problem (where legality is what Apple must abide by)   
    c. And it's an ethical problem (where ethicality is basic standards)   
      
   Whether the location is accurate to four decimal places or eight does not   
   matter. The issue is that the location exists in the database at all when   
   the SSID was explicitly marked not to be mapped which is 100% following   
   Apple's stated legally enforceable public privacy policy (& to Congress!)   
      
   That is the part I am trying to understand and discuss here.   
   Not decimal places, per se, although decimal places point to accuracy.   
      
   To respond to your other issues, I am not trying to make any company look   
   bad as I would do the same if Google or Mozilla did what Apple does.   
      
   They don't.   
        
     "Mozilla's client applications do not collect information   
      about WiFi access points whose SSID is hidden or ends with   
      the string '_nomap' (e.g. 'Simpson-family-wifi_nomap')."   
      
   In summary, I am trying to understand why an access point that should not   
   be included in any mapping system is still present in Apple's WPS database   
      
   That is the main point I am raising here, where I disagree with your   
   characterization of that fact being "anti Apple" as it's about privacy.   
      
   Clearly Apple doesn't bother to care to respect their own privacy policy.   
      
   But knowing that fact does not mean I'm anti Apple as I'd act the same if   
   Mozilla (see above) didn't follow their own stated privacy policy also.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)