XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone   
   From: marianjones@helpfulpeople.com   
      
   badgolferman wrote:   
   >> But I'll back off on this tack since if anyone thinks the goal is 'just   
   >> trying to be right', then I've failed at educating people on this ng how   
   >> Apple products actually work in the real world (outside of absurd marketing   
   >> claims).   
   >>   
   >   
   > Remember the "wrong" thread? What I said above applies to most everyone in   
   > this group. You've actually admitted to being wrong in the past, it's   
   > everyone else's ego which can't handle it. What they really want is for   
   > someone to validate them so they can _win_ their argument.   
      
   Yeah. I remember it well.   
      
   I again apologize if I came off, to you, as "just trying to be right".   
   I care about discussions that aim purposefully toward a logical answer.   
      
   Which takes great effort to attain (e.g., in the Apple WPS situation where   
   I asked Apple why my opted-out AP is in their highly insecure public DB).   
      
   The whole point of a Usenet discussion is to refine our understanding, not   
   to declare victory. My educational background in science & engineering   
   drilled into me that most of us start out wrong until we test our   
   assumptions. That's why I appreciate when someone can admit a mistake.   
      
   What I push back against are the folks who confuse certainty with evidence   
   and think simply endlessly repeating a fact-free claim makes it true.   
      
   You and I have both admitted when we got something wrong, because   
   that's how people actually learn new things.   
      
   I admitted it openly, publicly & repeatedly in the iOS port issue, right?   
   Now I know possibly know it better'n they do, simply because I tested the   
   hell out of it on Windows to make sure it wasn't doing port swapping.   
      
   I had no problem learning from Tyrone (who was the only one I had trusted,   
   since he knew Windows 11 behavior that I was unaware of) about the ports.   
      
   I even profusely and openly publicly thanked Tyrone for being believable.   
   And yet, even today, Tyrone uses the fact I had no trouble admitting that   
   only iOS does the ports the way they do as a way to attack me endlessly.   
      
   EDIT: I just noticed moments ago, that Tyrone ATTACKED ME VICIOUSLY simply   
   for admitting I was wrong, and, let's be very clear, I'm the only one who   
   completely and thoroughly tested the ports on Windows to make sure that   
   nothing was being port mapped under the covers.   
      
   And yet, by me LEARNING from Tyrone & OPENLY admitting I was wrong (since   
   only iOS works that way), Tyrone, moments ago, viciously attacked me!   
      
   The funny thing is they feel if someone admits they're wrong, it's a   
   weakness, and yet, in reality, as you are aware, it's a strength.   
      
   Someone who can't admit they're wrong will never learn how to be right.   
      
   But to some of these people, if you admit you're wrong once, they attack   
   you forever, just like Tyrone just did in this very thread moments ago!   
      
   They think learning something by admitting we're wrong, is a weakness.   
   And yet, it's the strength that all well-educated logical people own.   
   --   
   My ego is in UNDERSTANDING how the product actually works, not in   
   joining a group of zealots in huddling around their marketing god.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)