XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone   
   From: marianjones@helpfulpeople.com   
      
   It seems we need a separate thread on teaching others and learning from   
   others more about the very important topic of how iOS is actually designed.   
      
   Tyrone wrote:   
   >> With ones Apple devices meshed via iCloud - and all the secure   
   >> communications and storage therein, the powerful personal experience   
   >> emerges when one daily drives a Mac/iPhone/Watch and if need be iPad and   
   >> others.   
   >   
   > Exactly. This is the entire point of the Apple ecosystem.   
   > Everything works together.   
      
   This thread can be titled any of the following to help people understand   
   iOS Design, and specifically "What Happens When You Refuse the Apple ID"?   
      
    iOS Design Assumptions and Apple ID Dependence   
    How iOS Behaves When You Decline an Apple ID   
    The Role of Apple ID in iOS Functionality   
    iOS Architecture and Mandatory Cloud Integration   
    iOS as a Cloud-Dependent Platform: Design or Limitation?   
    The Apple Ecosystem and Forced Cloud Integration   
    iOS Without an Apple ID: What Actually Happens   
    Living Signed-Out on iOS: A Technical Reality Check   
    iOS Prompts and Apple ID Lock-In: A Closer Look   
    etc.   
      
   If you refuse to sign in, like I do, then iOS will repeatedly prompt you.   
   That part is absolutely real whether or not people are aware of it.   
      
   The system is built around the assumption that an Apple ID is always   
   present, so if you decline to provide one, you end up in a permanent   
   "incomplete setup" state that keeps resurfacing.   
      
   Obviously iOS relies heavily on Apple ID for syncing, App Store access,   
   iMessage, FaceTime, passkeys, and almost every other integrated feature.   
   So yes, once you are signed into the Cupertino servers, "everything works   
   together" because the device is designed to treat the cloud services as   
   the center of gravity. The local device becomes the interface layer for   
   that larger system.   
      
   Once you're signed in, the system handles authentication silently in the   
   background, but hiding that sign-in does not mean it is not happening.   
   It simply means the prompts are suppressed because the device finally has   
   the credentials it keeps asking for.   
      
   If you refuse to sign in (as I have been testing for years), then you   
   will eventually be forced by Apple to sign in again. The system will keep   
   trying to complete tasks that require an Apple ID, and each failure   
   triggers another prompt. That is not a bug. It is how the platform is   
   designed.   
      
   And one of the clearest examples is that you cannot update apps at all   
   unless you are signed into an Apple ID. Even apps you already have   
   installed cannot be updated without logging into the Apple servers. At   
   the same time, the OS itself *can* be updated without an Apple ID. This   
   means that over time, the OS will advance while the apps remain frozen,   
   and eventually many of them will refuse to run because they no longer   
   match the newer OS requirements. This is not hypothetical. It is built   
   into the design.   
      
   Every common consumer ecosystem "works together" if you are willing to   
   stay logged into the mothership all day long. Apple simply pushes that   
   model harder than most.   
      
   >> A case in point - and this does not apply generally[1] to Android is   
   >> Passkeys, the growing secure login method for a rapidly growing number   
   >> of sites.   
      
   There are fundamental concepts that need to be stated about the locked-in   
   nature of the Apple ecosystem, which we may need to discuss in a separate   
   thread.   
      
   It seems we need a separate thread on the topic of how iOS is designed.   
      
   >> On Apple, the same Passkey one has set up from any of his iCloud linked   
   >> accounts is near instantly available via iCloud/Passwords on his other   
   >> devices that have secure login (biometric or password guarded: ie on my   
   >> Mac it's fingerprint, Phone:FaceID). No special app needed - it's in   
   >> the bones of iOS, MacOS, etc.   
      
   What needs to be taught is that iOS is designed around the assumption that   
   the cloud is the authoritative source. Once you're signed into the Apple   
   servers, of course things appear seamless. That is the whole point of the   
   design. The device is not meant to operate independently of that system.   
      
   It seems we need a separate thread on the topic of how iOS is designed.   
      
   > Exactly. This is the entire point of the Apple ecosystem. Everything works   
   > together. Something Arlen will never admit - or even understand.   
      
   What needs to be taught is that iOS devices lose major functionality when   
   you are not logged into the Apple servers. The platform is structured so   
   that the cloud account is not optional. If you decline to sign in, you   
   will be prompted constantly because the system is trying to complete tasks   
   that it cannot complete without those credentials.   
      
   It seems we need a separate thread on the topic of how iOS is designed.   
      
   > Because Troll.   
   >   
   >> Smooth sailing at the Apple Country Club. A gated facility with free   
   >> access to the wilder world outside.   
      
   The frequency of sign-ins to Apple's Cupertino matrix is high simply   
   because almost every subsystem on iOS expects an Apple ID:   
    App Store   
    iCloud   
    iMessage   
    FaceTime   
    Keychain / Passkeys   
    Find My   
    Device backups   
    App updates   
    Subscriptions   
    Apple Pay   
    Screen Time   
    Family Sharing   
    Photos sync   
    Notes sync   
    Safari sync   
    Password autofill   
    Two-factor prompts   
    System services that check entitlement status   
    etc.   
      
   When you're signed out, each of these tries to initialize, fails, and   
   triggers a prompt. So the frequency I am describing is rational and   
   predictable given the architecture.   
      
   >> [1] This is possible on an Android phone - via "Google Password Manager"   
   >> in Chrome. Eeeeeiiii ! What a stinkin' plop of proposition that is!   
      
   The fact is that iOS devices are designed around the assumption that the   
   cloud account is always present. That is why the experience feels like a   
   dumb terminal when you decline to participate in that model.   
      
   Any OS can behave like iOS if you are willing to log into the mothership   
   servers constantly. The difference is that on iOS, the design makes that   
   model unavoidable, and if you refuse to sign in, you see the underlying   
   mechanics exposed all day, every day, forever.   
   --   
   My goal on these Apple newsgroups is to teach, learn and to help others.   
   This particular thread is all about learning from others & teaching them.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)