XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone   
   From: nuh-uh@nope.com   
      
   On 2025-12-25 13:07, Marian wrote:   
   >   
   > It seems we need a separate thread on teaching others and learning from   
   > others more about the very important topic of how iOS is actually designed.   
   >   
   > Tyrone wrote:   
   >>> With ones Apple devices meshed via iCloud - and all the secure   
   >>> communications and storage therein, the powerful personal experience   
   >>> emerges when one daily drives a Mac/iPhone/Watch and if need be iPad and   
   >>> others.   
   >>   
   >> Exactly. This is the entire point of the Apple ecosystem.   
   >> Everything works together.   
   >   
   > This thread can be titled any of the following to help people understand   
   > iOS Design, and specifically "What Happens When You Refuse the Apple ID"?   
   >   
   > iOS Design Assumptions and Apple ID Dependence   
   > How iOS Behaves When You Decline an Apple ID   
   > The Role of Apple ID in iOS Functionality   
   > iOS Architecture and Mandatory Cloud Integration   
   > iOS as a Cloud-Dependent Platform: Design or Limitation?   
   > The Apple Ecosystem and Forced Cloud Integration   
   > iOS Without an Apple ID: What Actually Happens   
   > Living Signed-Out on iOS: A Technical Reality Check   
   > iOS Prompts and Apple ID Lock-In: A Closer Look   
   > etc.   
   >   
   > If you refuse to sign in, like I do, then iOS will repeatedly prompt you.   
   > That part is absolutely real whether or not people are aware of it.   
   >   
   > The system is built around the assumption that an Apple ID is always   
   > present, so if you decline to provide one, you end up in a permanent   
   > "incomplete setup" state that keeps resurfacing.   
   >   
   > Obviously iOS relies heavily on Apple ID for syncing, App Store access,   
   > iMessage, FaceTime, passkeys, and almost every other integrated feature.   
   > So yes, once you are signed into the Cupertino servers, "everything works   
   > together" because the device is designed to treat the cloud services as   
   > the center of gravity. The local device becomes the interface layer for   
   > that larger system.   
      
   But you are not forced or required to use any of those services, with   
   the one exception of App Store access.   
      
   For all the others, how in the world do you expect to integrate services   
   across multiple devices WITHOUT authentication?   
      
   >   
   > Once you're signed in, the system handles authentication silently in the   
   > background, but hiding that sign-in does not mean it is not happening.   
      
   OK. So?   
      
   > It simply means the prompts are suppressed because the device finally has   
   > the credentials it keeps asking for.   
   >   
   > If you refuse to sign in (as I have been testing for years), then you   
   > will eventually be forced by Apple to sign in again. The system will keep   
   > trying to complete tasks that require an Apple ID, and each failure   
   > triggers another prompt. That is not a bug. It is how the platform is   
   > designed.   
      
   As I've already demonstrated, this is simply not so.   
      
   Each failure does NOT trigger another prompt.   
      
   As I showed back in August of 2024:   
      
      
      
   >   
   > And one of the clearest examples is that you cannot update apps at all   
   > unless you are signed into an Apple ID. Even apps you already have   
   > installed cannot be updated without logging into the Apple servers. At   
      
   This is true. It is literally the only true thing you've written so far.   
      
   > the same time, the OS itself *can* be updated without an Apple ID. This   
   > means that over time, the OS will advance while the apps remain frozen,   
   > and eventually many of them will refuse to run because they no longer   
   > match the newer OS requirements. This is not hypothetical. It is built   
   > into the design.   
      
   And you can create an AppleID with absolutely minimal personal   
   information to avoid this.   
      
   >   
   > Every common consumer ecosystem "works together" if you are willing to   
   > stay logged into the mothership all day long. Apple simply pushes that   
   > model harder than most.   
      
   They make it attractive by offering a suite of useful services.   
      
   I LIKE that my passwords are seamlessly and securely synched across my   
   devices.   
      
   Likewise for my:   
      
   Notes   
   Messages   
   Contacts   
   Calendars   
   Reminders   
   Safari bookmarks   
   News   
   Stocks   
   Wallet   
   FaceTime   
   Books   
   Maps   
      
   Etc.!   
      
   >   
   >>> A case in point - and this does not apply generally[1] to Android is   
   >>> Passkeys, the growing secure login method for a rapidly growing number   
   >>> of sites.   
   >   
   > There are fundamental concepts that need to be stated about the locked-in   
   > nature of the Apple ecosystem, which we may need to discuss in a separate   
   > thread.   
   >   
   > It seems we need a separate thread on the topic of how iOS is designed.   
      
   As if you'd understand it.   
      
   >   
   >>> On Apple, the same Passkey one has set up from any of his iCloud linked   
   >>> accounts is near instantly available via iCloud/Passwords on his other   
   >>> devices that have secure login (biometric or password guarded: ie on my   
   >>> Mac it's fingerprint, Phone:FaceID). No special app needed - it's in   
   >>> the bones of iOS, MacOS, etc.   
   >   
   > What needs to be taught is that iOS is designed around the assumption that   
   > the cloud is the authoritative source. Once you're signed into the Apple   
   > servers, of course things appear seamless. That is the whole point of the   
   > design. The device is not meant to operate independently of that system.   
   >   
   > It seems we need a separate thread on the topic of how iOS is designed.   
      
   You said that already.   
      
   >   
   >> Exactly. This is the entire point of the Apple ecosystem. Everything   
   >> works   
   >> together. Something Arlen will never admit - or even understand.   
   >   
   > What needs to be taught is that iOS devices lose major functionality when   
   > you are not logged into the Apple servers. The platform is structured so   
   > that the cloud account is not optional. If you decline to sign in, you   
   > will be prompted constantly because the system is trying to complete tasks   
   > that it cannot complete without those credentials.   
      
   Cloud services require the cloud. This is not news.   
      
   >   
   > It seems we need a separate thread on the topic of how iOS is designed.   
      
   You said that already.   
      
   >   
   >> Because Troll.   
   >>   
   >>> Smooth sailing at the Apple Country Club. A gated facility with free   
   >>> access to the wilder world outside.   
   >   
   > The frequency of sign-ins to Apple's Cupertino matrix is high simply   
   > because almost every subsystem on iOS expects an Apple ID:   
   > App Store   
      
   Which you almost certainly need.   
      
   > iCloud   
      
   Which you can decline to use.   
      
   > iMessage   
      
   Which you can decline to use.   
      
   > FaceTime   
      
   Which you can decline to use.   
      
   > Keychain / Passkeys   
      
   Which you can decline to use.   
      
   > Find My   
      
   Which you can decline to use.   
      
   > Device backups   
      
   Which you can decline to use.   
      
   > App updates   
      
   Which is the same as "App Store"   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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