XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: nobody@haph.org
Alan news:10kp5t3$1mfma$1@dont-email.me Wed, 21 Jan 2026
00:16:34 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
> On 2026-01-20 15:17, CrudeSausage wrote:
>> I just find it unfortunate that Anal is still replying to me. I am so
>> tired of his zealoty that I just put him in the killfile. No matter what
>> Apple does, it's always right in the minds of these people. Even when
>> their MacBook self-destruct when the TBW is reached, this is a good thing.
> Still waiting for proof that:
>
> 1. SSDs die all at once because some storage locations die.
If one of the NAND chips which together make up the SSD dies - the SSD is
done.
Google query:
if a nand chip on a mac fails does the entire ssd die
Googles reply:
Yes, if a NAND flash memory chip on a modern MacBook fails,
the entire SSD effectively dies, resulting in a completely unusable computer
and likely total data loss.
Because modern MacBooks (both Intel with T2 chips and Apple Silicon
M1/M2/M3/M4) solder the NAND chips directly onto the logic board, there is
no separate SSD module to replace. The NAND, SSD controller, and CPU operate
as a tightly integrated system.
If a single NAND chip on a modern Mac fails,
the entire SSD effectively dies. Because Apple uses a soldered configuration
that acts like a RAID 0 array, data is striped across all available NAND
chips, meaning if one fails, the volume becomes unreadable.
Impact of a Single NAND Failure
Total Data Loss: Files are split into chunks across multiple chips.
Losing one chip makes it impossible for the system to reconstruct any files,
typically resulting in total data loss unless professional chip-level
recovery is performed.
System Failure: Modern Macs (Apple Silicon/M-series and T2 Intel models)
cannot boot—even from an external drive—if the internal NAND is
non-functional. Critical firmware required for the boot process is stored on
these internal chips.
Catastrophic Hardware Issues: In some models (like the 16-inch Intel
MacBook Pro), a power rail failure can send high voltage (13V) directly into
the NAND, physically "blowing" the chip and making data recovery extremely
difficult.
Repair and Recovery Options
Logic Board Replacement: This is the standard repair offered by Apple,
but it results in a completely empty drive and loss of all local data.
Micro-soldering Repair: Specialist independent shops can sometimes
desolder the failed NAND chip and replace it with a donor chip. However,
this is a highly complex procedure requiring specialized tools to re-pair
the new chip with the Apple security processor.
Professional Data Recovery: If the data is critical, labs like
DriveSavers or Ontrack (Apple-authorized) may attempt a "chip transplant" to
a donor board to temporarily power the system and decrypt the data.
> 2. That Macs with a dead SSD can't boot.
Modern ones can't. Apple decided to put some critical firmware on the NANDs.
Once one of them dies, the mac is done. New logic board time to 'fix it' -
Surely as the mac person you are you knew about this? Granted, it started to
really take off in 2020 so I suppose although unlikely that it's possible
you didn't know?
Well, you do now.
Here's another link:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254792933?sortBy=rank
Checkout the first reply. Read the whole thread if you'd like. The mac dies
when the SSD dies. No external boot option will be available for you.
>And NO: I will go looking in a half hour video to find it.
Not necessary. Turns out that Google knows all about this.
Here ya go:
I queried Google with this:
is critical mac firmware stored on nand chips that makeup the SSD
Yes, on modern Apple Silicon (M1/M2/M3/M4) Macs, critical firmware is stored
on the NAND flash chips that make up the internal SSD. Unlike older
computers that stored BIOS/EFI firmware on a separate, dedicated ROM chip,
Apple has integrated the firmware into the storage medium.
Here is the breakdown of how this works and its implications:
1. Where is the Firmware Stored?
Apple Silicon (Mx) Macs: The pre-boot "firmware" (Low-Level
Bootloader/iBoot) is stored in hidden partitions on the soldered internal
SSD. If the internal SSD dies or fails, the Mac cannot boot, even from an
external drive, and is essentially "bricked".
Intel Macs with T2 Chip: Similar to Apple Silicon, these Macs rely on
the T2 chip, which uses the internal SSD to store critical system firmware.
2. Why is it on the NAND?
Security & Integration: Apple utilizes a highly integrated design where
the SoC (System on Chip), RAM, and NAND chips are bound together. The NAND
is encrypted with keys stored in the Secure Enclave.
Secure Boot: This design ensures that every stage of the boot process is
cryptographically verified.
3. Implications of this Design
Non-Upgradable/Repairable: Because the firmware is tied to the specific
NAND chips and encrypted by the specific SoC, you cannot swap NAND chips
from another Mac.
Data Recovery: If the NAND chips fail, data recovery is extremely
difficult or impossible because the encryption keys are lost.
Firmware Updates: When you update your Mac, these hidden partitions on
the SSD are updated with new firmware.
Did you notice that both queries resulted in explaining that when the
internal soldered on SSD dies, your mac does too? No external booting will
be available to you. Critical firmware was stored on those chips and it gets
wasted if one of them fails to continue operating.
Your mac depends on that drive for it's very life. A drive you cannot
replace. Nasty. I don't have critical firmware present on the SSD on this
machine. Losing the drive won't turn this computer into a brick.
I'd say this conversation has reached it's end at this point, bud.
--
Liar, lawyer; mirror show me, what's the difference?
Kangaroo done hung the guilty with the innocent
Liar, lawyer; mirror for ya', what's the difference?
Kangaroo be stoned. He's guilty as the government
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
|
