XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy   
   From: crude@sausa.ge   
      
   On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 03:14:38 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin wrote:   
      
   > Alan  news:10kp5t3$1mfma$1@dont-email.me Wed, 21 Jan   
   > 2026 00:16:34 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 2026-01-20 15:17, CrudeSausage wrote:   
   >   
   >>> I just find it unfortunate that Anal is still replying to me. I am so   
   >>> tired of his zealoty that I just put him in the killfile. No matter   
   >>> what Apple does, it's always right in the minds of these people. Even   
   >>> when their MacBook self-destruct when the TBW is reached, this is a   
   >>> good thing.   
   >> Still waiting for proof that:   
   >>   
   >> 1. SSDs die all at once because some storage locations die.   
   >   
   > If one of the NAND chips which together make up the SSD dies - the SSD   
   > is done.   
   >   
   > Google query:   
   > if a nand chip on a mac fails does the entire ssd die   
   >   
   > Googles reply:   
   >   
   > Yes, if a NAND flash memory chip on a modern MacBook fails,   
   > the entire SSD effectively dies, resulting in a completely unusable   
   > computer and likely total data loss.   
   > Because modern MacBooks (both Intel with T2 chips and Apple Silicon   
   > M1/M2/M3/M4) solder the NAND chips directly onto the logic board, there   
   > is no separate SSD module to replace. The NAND, SSD controller, and CPU   
   > operate as a tightly integrated system.   
   >   
   > If a single NAND chip on a modern Mac fails,   
   > the entire SSD effectively dies. Because Apple uses a soldered   
   > configuration that acts like a RAID 0 array, data is striped across all   
   > available NAND chips, meaning if one fails, the volume becomes   
   > unreadable.   
   > Impact of a Single NAND Failure   
   >   
   >     Total Data Loss: Files are split into chunks across multiple chips.   
   > Losing one chip makes it impossible for the system to reconstruct any   
   > files,   
   > typically resulting in total data loss unless professional chip-level   
   > recovery is performed.   
      
   Sounds wonderful for corporate clients.   
      
   >     System Failure: Modern Macs (Apple Silicon/M-series and T2 Intel   
   >     models)   
   > cannot boot—even from an external drive—if the internal NAND is   
   > non-functional. Critical firmware required for the boot process is   
   > stored on these internal chips.   
      
   This basically destroys Anal's argument a few months ago that you can just   
   use an external drive if your main one dies. This one fact cooks the   
   zealot.   
      
   >     Catastrophic Hardware Issues: In some models (like the 16-inch Intel   
   > MacBook Pro), a power rail failure can send high voltage (13V) directly   
   > into the NAND, physically "blowing" the chip and making data recovery   
   > extremely difficult.   
      
   Ah, I thought it was 12V. Nevertheless, if you NVMe dies, your entire unit   
   dies. I'm sure Apple users will welcome this as they do all other   
   stupidity from Cupertino.   
      
   > Repair and Recovery Options   
   >   
   >     Logic Board Replacement: This is the standard repair offered by   
   >     Apple,   
   > but it results in a completely empty drive and loss of all local data.   
      
   I'm sure businesses who made the transition to Apple will be overjoyed by   
   this reality.   
      
   >     Micro-soldering Repair: Specialist independent shops can sometimes   
   > desolder the failed NAND chip and replace it with a donor chip. However,   
   > this is a highly complex procedure requiring specialized tools to   
   > re-pair the new chip with the Apple security processor.   
      
   This is so much easier than the five-minute process of simply replacing   
   the dying NVMe with a new one, and the fifteen minutes it might take to   
   migrate the old drive's data to the new one.   
      
   >     Professional Data Recovery: If the data is critical, labs like   
   > DriveSavers or Ontrack (Apple-authorized) may attempt a "chip   
   > transplant" to a donor board to temporarily power the system and decrypt   
   > the data.   
      
   I'm sure this costs no more than $20.   
      
   >> 2. That Macs with a dead SSD can't boot.   
   >   
   > Modern ones can't. Apple decided to put some critical firmware on the   
   > NANDs.   
   > Once one of them dies, the mac is done. New logic board time to 'fix it'   
   > - Surely as the mac person you are you knew about this? Granted, it   
   > started to really take off in 2020 so I suppose although unlikely that   
   > it's possible you didn't know?   
   >   
   > Well, you do now.   
   >   
   > Here's another link:   
   >   
   > https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254792933?sortBy=rank   
   >   
   > Checkout the first reply. Read the whole thread if you'd like. The mac   
   > dies when the SSD dies. No external boot option will be available for   
   > you.   
      
   ROFL. I already told Anal this, but he always needs more evidence no   
   matter how much you provide. It must be hard to be a zealot who can't   
   think for himself.   
      
   >>And NO: I will go looking in a half hour video to find it.   
   >   
   > Not necessary. Turns out that Google knows all about this.   
   >   
   > Here ya go:   
   >   
   > I queried Google with this:   
   >   
   > is critical mac firmware stored on nand chips that makeup the SSD   
   >   
   > Yes, on modern Apple Silicon (M1/M2/M3/M4) Macs, critical firmware is   
   > stored on the NAND flash chips that make up the internal SSD. Unlike   
   > older computers that stored BIOS/EFI firmware on a separate, dedicated   
   > ROM chip, Apple has integrated the firmware into the storage medium.   
   >   
   > Here is the breakdown of how this works and its implications:   
   > 1. Where is the Firmware Stored?   
   >   
   >     Apple Silicon (Mx) Macs: The pre-boot "firmware" (Low-Level   
   > Bootloader/iBoot) is stored in hidden partitions on the soldered   
   > internal SSD. If the internal SSD dies or fails, the Mac cannot boot,   
   > even from an external drive, and is essentially "bricked".   
   >     Intel Macs with T2 Chip: Similar to Apple Silicon, these Macs rely   
   >     on   
   > the T2 chip, which uses the internal SSD to store critical system   
   > firmware.   
   >   
   > 2. Why is it on the NAND?   
   >   
   >     Security & Integration: Apple utilizes a highly integrated design   
   >     where   
   > the SoC (System on Chip), RAM, and NAND chips are bound together. The   
   > NAND is encrypted with keys stored in the Secure Enclave.   
   >     Secure Boot: This design ensures that every stage of the boot   
   >     process is   
   > cryptographically verified.   
   >   
   > 3. Implications of this Design   
   >   
   >     Non-Upgradable/Repairable: Because the firmware is tied to the   
   >     specific   
   > NAND chips and encrypted by the specific SoC, you cannot swap NAND chips   
   > from another Mac.   
   >     Data Recovery: If the NAND chips fail, data recovery is extremely   
   > difficult or impossible because the encryption keys are lost.   
   >     Firmware Updates: When you update your Mac, these hidden partitions   
   >     on   
   > the SSD are updated with new firmware.   
   >   
   > Did you notice that both queries resulted in explaining that when the   
   > internal soldered on SSD dies, your mac does too? No external booting   
   > will be available to you. Critical firmware was stored on those chips   
   > and it gets wasted if one of them fails to continue operating.   
   >   
   > Your mac depends on that drive for it's very life.  A drive you   
      
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