From: tim@streater.me.uk   
      
   On 13 Feb 2024 at 15:20:41 GMT, "The Natural Philosopher"   
    wrote:   
      
   > On 13/02/2024 12:41, TimS wrote:   
   >> On 13 Feb 2024 at 12:14:57 GMT, "Ahem A Rivet's Shot"    
   >> wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:29:08 +0000   
   >>> The Natural Philosopher  wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 12/02/2024 20:23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:   
   >>>>> On 12 Feb 2024 19:10:53 GMT   
   >>>>> TimS  wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any   
   >>>>>> justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>      Questionable justification for them to be in any hands IMHO.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I think what is happening in Ukraine fully justifies their existence and   
   >>>> use.  Because if the other side has them, you are going to be walked all   
   >>>   
   >>>      Yes that's always the justification - "the bad guys have them",   
   >>> therein lies the problem.   
   >>   
   >> It's usually a single bad guy. WW2 only happened because of Adolf, Ukraine   
   >> only happened because of Putin. If we get trouble in the Pacific, it will be   
   >> because of Xi.   
   >>   
   > No. That is criminally naive. The reasons why Adolf, Putin and Xi became   
   > leaders are rooted in many other economic and geopolitical factors.   
      
   I know that. But instead of being warmongers they might have merely been   
   strong leaders for their countries. Unluckily for the world, they *are/were*   
   warmongers, when there was no need. And *that* is what we have to guard   
   against and prepare for.   
      
   > They were and are products of their time and place. Just like Donald   
   > Trump is.   
   >   
   >> It only takes one to make war; it takes two to make peace. After 1991, we   
   all   
   >> thought Russia was on a peaceful/democratic trajectory, and we were   
   encouraged   
   >> by the Chinese changing leaders every ten years. Thats all gone by the board   
   >> now, and we have to adapt accordingly, just as we eventually did in the   
   1930s.   
   >>   
   > Putin wont hand in his guns just because you do. That's all I am saying.   
      
   I'm not saying we should hand in our guns, because, essentially, we don't have   
   any. But the govt should be training us to handle them, and laying in   
   stockpiles.   
      
      
   --   
   Tim   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)