...

>
 RW>> Indeed!  IT takes trained troops, it takes willpower, it
 RW>> takes building of infrastructure, the things we're failing
 RW>> to do in Afghanistan.

BK>>  Don't forget, nationbuilding is not good. Nationbuilding is bad.
BK>> Nationbuilding is the work of Satan. We know that because right
BK>> wingers tell us so.

 RW> IT has its downside, I'd agree there, but something *must*
 RW> be done in that region, and the better thing to do is
 RW> provide the troops and resources necessary to do just that.

 Yeah, actually commit to fixing it. Gonna happen this week I
 bet... yeah... sure... I believe it as much as you do.

 RW> PEople who have a future that is other than bleak don't
 RW> have as much motivation to fight to the point of their own
 RW> destruction.

 Yep. Or, as I say it, when they have more to lose than they have
 to gain...

 And if they have nothing to lose then they can do anything for
 any reason.

BK>>  Best to just let them live in anarchy and grow hard and bitter  and
BK>> hate filled... what can they do, we are protected by oceans,  aren't
BK>> we?

 RW> That ocean isn't a whole lot of protection these days,
 RW> especially when we listen to folks moan and groan as they
 RW> bring them over here on student visas and whatever else.

 Yeah... that's the point. The ocean stopped being any protection
 at all by WWII.

 ...

BK>>  After Kuwait I was thinking, the next president should vow that  no
BK>> American soldier would be sent to fight, and put his life on  the
BK>> line, and maybe die, unless it's for democracy for the
BK>>  country they are fighting for.

 RW> I've always hoped for that one.  iF that's not what we're
 RW> fighting for I don't want the young folks going there to
 RW> die, for *any* other reason.  NO other reason is worth it

 Exactly.

 RW> imho.  But, now we have a situation where we must do just
 RW> that, because there  are a couple of failed states that
 RW> we've either two choices:  Nation building or annihilation.

 Yep. Though there is a good chance if we got out of the way they
 could fix it themselves. The Iraqis were saying, if the US
 leaves we will take care of Al Qaeda. They didn't like Al Qaeda
 any more than we did.

 A local columnist in the Toledo Paper is a native of Pakistan.
 He points out, the military there doesn't much like being jerked
 around by politicians, and they won't care if those politicians
 wear turbans.

 We ain't winning there, and just making more enemies.

 RW> Funny how we went in my little over half a century lifetime
 RW> from being a beacon of freedom and justice to the world to
 RW> being vilified and considered inept.  WHat happened to that
 RW> beacon for liberty and justice we herad about in our civics
 RW> lessons?  IT got snuffed out, and then sold as parts for
 RW> cheap oil.

 Excellent analysis... but... there is hope.

 Worldpublicopinion.org prints results of various polls. They say
 the world's opinion of the US is moving up. We aren't at the top
 yet, but we are moving up.

BK>>  The Emir of Kuwait would not have been allowed to return by my
BK>> rules.

 RW> MIne either, but he did return.  Even then I was saying to
 RW> folks that they shouldn't confuse dying for oil with
 RW> fighting for freedom.

 Which, somehow, they got confused about again.

>
BK>>>  Maybe just do some precision surgery of the Pakistan
BK>>>  intelligence service.

 RW>> There's a thought.  ISI essentially operates with autonomy.

BK>>  Exactly my thought.

 RW> Appears they're gonna be running the show in the whole
 RW> country anyway.

 Unless they bring in the Taliban and the military decides to
 stop that.

>

 ...

BK>>>  OTOH, we need to rein in India's nuke activities also. Damn so
BK>>> much we need to do.

 RW> RIght, but isn't some of India's nuke activity power
 RW> generation related as well?

 Yep, which is completely within the anti-proliferation rules.

 RW>> Right, and the way to rein in INdia's nuclear ambition is
 RW>> to deal with the failed state which is their neighbor.

BK>>  I suspect India would still want to be the dominant power so  they
BK>> would keep the nukes. They all need to be under world
BK>>  pressure.

 RW> Probably, but if I had to make a choice I'd just as soon
 RW> INdia have the whip hand.

 I'd just as soon the all be forced to keep their hands off each
 other.



BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

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