XPost: rec.food.baking, alt.politics.usa.constitution, alt.politics.republicans   
   XPost: alt.politics.homosexuality, misc.legal   
   From: noway@nowhere.com   
      
   On 9/1/2018 5:59 PM, Peter Franks wrote:   
   > On 9/1/2018 4:01 PM, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:   
   >> On 9/1/2018 1:09 PM, Peter Franks wrote:   
   >>   
   >> {snip}   
   >>   
   >>> A couple of points that need clarifying:   
   >>>   - Government does not have authority over individuals, it has been   
   >>> delegated authority /from/ individuals.   
   >>>   - That authority is to exercise, in a general sense and purpose,   
   >>> the powers and authority of the individual.   
   >>>   
   >>> Regarding obligations:   
   >>>   - The obligations of the individual are few and defined, and that   
   >>> is to support and sustain the execution of the authority that has   
   >>> been legally and justly delegated.  No more, no less.   
   >>>   
   >>> An example: the authority to protect the sovereignty of the nation   
   >>> has been delegated to government.  Therefore, _every_ individual is   
   >>> equally obligated to support and sustain that protection.  It is up   
   >>> to the people of that society to define that equal obligation (e.g.   
   >>> it could be that all serve in the armed forces for some period of   
   >>> time, and/or individuals are obligated to financially support the   
   >>> maintenance and execution of the armed forces (i.e. taxes), or ....).   
   >>> If an individual refuses their obligation, they are subject to   
   >>> punishment or removal from society.   
   >>   
   >> That's one example.  Since they are few and defined, what is the   
   >> exhaustive list of obligations?   
   >   
   > For us, US Constitution.   
      
   So for example, Social Security taxation in order to provide for the   
   general welfare has been delegated to government and individuals are   
   obligated to pay taxes for that purpose?   
      
   >>> Now can we agree that no individual has authority over another?   
   >>   
   >> We have always agreed on that.  Where we disagree is the scope of   
   >> government's delegated authority over individuals.   
   >   
   > If an individual doesn't have authority over another, how can authority   
   > over another be delegated to government?  It can't, ergo government has   
   > no authority over individuals.   
      
   Let me rephrase.  We agree no individual has authority over another.   
   Where we disagree is the scope of what has been legally and justly   
   delegated to the government.   
      
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