XPost: rec.food.baking, alt.politics.usa.constitution, alt.politics.republicans   
   XPost: alt.politics.homosexuality, misc.legal   
   From: none@none.com   
      
   On 10/17/2018 11:16 AM, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:   
   > On 10/17/2018 10:41 AM, Peter Franks wrote:   
   >> On 10/17/2018 10:28 AM, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:   
   >   
   > {snip}   
   >   
   >>> So, no military draft is permitted?   
   >>   
   >> In critical times of defense, citizens are obligated to provide for   
   >> the common defense of the nation.   
   >>   
   >> Those citizens that do not fulfill their obligation are subject to   
   >> punishment and/or ejection from the society.   
   >   
   > Who gets to decide what constitutes "critical times of defense"?   
      
   Oh, I think it is pretty cut and dried: defense against malicious attack   
   from an outside force or entity that can't be handled by current   
   military contingent.   
      
   >> Defense of the nation is an obligation of every citizen.  The same can   
   >> not be said of baking a cake.   
   >>   
   >> You have not provide ONE SHRED of reasoning to justify your stand that   
   >> the baker can be compelled to bake a cake.   
      
   > Using your semantics, the question isn't whether a baker can be   
   > compelled to bake a cake.   
      
   Are you now agreeing that one person does not have authority to compel   
   another?   
      
   > Instead, it's whether the baker can be   
   > punished for not baking a cake.   
   >   
   > The line of questions on the military draft are intended to establish a   
   > standard for when the government can punish someone for not doing   
   > something.  Once we have established that standard, we can apply it to   
   > baking cakes.  I continue to ask questions because we haven't yet   
   > established the standard.   
      
   The government can not punish someone for not doing something.   
      
   The government has been delegated the authority to punish those that   
   violate the rights of another.  Or by their omission, cause the rights   
   of another to be violated.   
      
   By not fulfilling your obligation to protect the nation, you, by   
   omission, violate the rights of another (someone else must now fight   
   twice as hard and/or die because of your abdication of obligation).   
   Since rights are violated and protections have been (presumably)   
   established, government can punish.   
      
   Standard set.   
      
   Now, on to the baker:   
      
   What rights are violated when a baker chooses to not bake a cake?   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)