XPost: rec.food.baking, alt.politics.usa.constitution, alt.politics.republicans   
   XPost: alt.politics.homosexuality, misc.legal   
   From: none@none.com   
      
   On 10/18/2018 10:22 AM, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:   
   > On 10/18/2018 9:39 AM, Peter Franks wrote:   
   >> On 10/17/2018 2:29 PM, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:   
   >   
   > {snip}   
   >   
   >>>> What right is violated by not baking a cake?   
   >>>   
   >>> I answered the question (negatively impacts the pursuit of happiness,   
   >>> and as a result harms the nation).   
   >>   
   >> Are you suggesting that I can demand anyone and everyone provide   
   >> whatever I desire in my pursuit of happiness?   
   >   
   > No.  I am saying the government can punish a baker for not serving   
   > someone because it is securing a right.   
      
   I'm going to take a different tack.   
      
   The right is to pursue happiness.   
      
   Not be provided happiness.   
      
   Therefore your assertion that it is securing a right is proved false.   
      
   >   
   >>> We just happen to disagree on whether that is a right.   
   >>   
   >> Disagree on what?  The right to compel?   
   >   
   > We disagree about whether the government is securing a right when it   
   > punishes a baker for not serving someone.   
      
   Yeah, you are just incapable of understanding the fundamental concepts   
   here.  I've seen it time after time after time.  I keep hoping that a   
   rational and logical approach to the topic will result in you (and   
   others) understanding the truth of the matter, but that can't and won't   
   happen -- you are mentally unable to comprehend.   
      
   Fundamentally there are 4 general (natural) groupings of people in the   
   world.  I don't see any movement between groups -- you are what you are.   
     Some people may appear to be in one grouping, due to misinformation   
   and/or confusion, and may be later enlightened.   
      
   Group 1: Independent   
   People of this mindset are fundamentally agents unto themselves.  They   
   are responsible and accountable unto themselves and are not dependent on   
   others.  Liberty reigns supreme.  These people understand truth, rights,   
   independence and freedom, and fight to protect it.   
      
   Group 2: Dependent   
   People of this mindset believe that others are their agents.  They   
   believe that others exist to generally provide for their needs.  They   
   are dependent on others and seek to preserve others insofar as it serves   
   them.  The will of the majority reigns supreme.  There is no truth, only   
   whim and subjectivity, and dependence.   
      
   Group 3: Incapable   
   People of this mindset do not have a belief system, instead they are   
   ruled by others, typically by group 2 and 4.  (Group 1 does not seek to   
   rule over others.)   
      
   Group 4: Takers   
   People of this mindset believe that others are their agents (similar to   
   group 2), however there is no preservation of others.  They take what   
   they want 'because they can', collateral damage is irrelevant.  These   
   are tyrants, and fortunately few in number, but their sheer will for   
   subjugation of all others has a broad and bloody impact.   
      
   Joshua, you are apparently of Group 2 -- you believe that others exist   
   to provide for your needs.  The mere fact that you do not understand the   
   difference between 'pursue' and 'provide' is suitable evidence of this   
   fact.  I'd hoped that you were of group one, but just   
   confused/misinformed, but I'm afraid that is not the case.   
      
   For other readers: this nation (United States) was founded by Group 1   
   people, using Group 1 principles.  People of Group 2 and Group 3 (and 4)   
   remained in Jolly Olde England -- thankfully.  Unfortunately, as time   
   has passed, people of Group 2 have become more and more populous, and   
   consequently the disposition of the country has changed, for the worse.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)