XPost: rec.food.baking, alt.politics.usa.constitution, alt.politics.republicans   
   XPost: alt.politics.homosexuality, misc.legal   
   From: noway@nowhere.com   
      
   On 11/20/2018 10:14 AM, Peter Franks wrote:   
   > On 11/19/2018 12:07 PM, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:   
   >> On 11/19/2018 12:03 PM, Peter Franks wrote:   
   >>> On 11/16/2018 6:43 PM, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:   
   >>>> On 11/16/2018 5:24 PM, Peter Franks wrote:   
   >>>>> On 11/16/2018 5:04 PM, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 11/16/2018 4:55 PM, Peter Franks wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 11/16/2018 4:35 PM, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> {snip}   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> How is it possible in your rights-based government for the baker   
   >>>>>>>> and the would-be customer to be treated equally?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> If both agree to the terms of the transaction, then the equal   
   >>>>>>> transfer of one form of value in exchange for something else of   
   >>>>>>> value.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> If either party disagrees for whatever reason, there is no   
   >>>>>>> transaction. The customer can refuse to buy for whatever reason.   
   >>>>>>> The baker can refuse to sell for whatever reason.  They are each   
   >>>>>>> equal.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> If the baker refuses to sell, the customer's right to pursue   
   >>>>>> happiness is denied.  If the customer refuses to buy, the baker   
   >>>>>> has no right denied.  That's not equal treatment.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> The baker was going to take the profits of the sale and go buy a   
   >>>>> candy bar.  He has been denied the right to pursue his happiness.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I disagree because of the small number of bakers compared to the   
   >>>> large number of customers.   
   >>>   
   >>> Rights are based on quantity?   
   >>   
   >> The baker's ability to pursue happiness is not impacted because some   
   >> other customer will buy his product.   
   >   
   > Equivalently the customer can go buy a cake from some other baker.   
      
   I addressed that below, and have addressed your other points in previous   
   posts.   
      
   > The only way that you can force the baker to bake is by using a model of   
   > inequality.   
   >   
   > Rights are bounded by the free exercise of the rights of another.   
   >   
   > You have given no evidence that rights overlap, and that one person has   
   > the authority to compel another against his will.   
   >   
   > You lost the argument.   
      
   That is what trolls say.  Non-trolls say we have an area of disagreement.   
      
   > The ONLY way you can force the baker to bake is if you believe that you   
   > have the authority to control someone else.  You don't, and you can't.   
   >   
   >   
   >> In contrast, the customer's ability to pursue happiness is impacted   
   >> because he has a limited number of bakers to choose from, and the one   
   >> he prefers may very well be the one who makes the best cakes   
   >> (delivering the greatest happiness).   
   >   
      
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