BK>>> The point of affirmative action is to insure success is
 BK>>> distributed regardless of race. Only those who oppose AA must
 BK>>> believe there is no racial compenent to poverty.

 LL>>> The point of affirmative action is to discriminate in favor
 LL>>> of minorities - in most cases meaning blacks.  Once equality

BK>>You really are not familar with the history of affirmative
BK>>action, are you.

 LL> Of course I am!  Of course I am!  It is a history of
 LL> discrimination!

 So, when did it start, who ordered it, and why?

BK>>Some years back I found one of the annual almanacs, don't recall
BK>>which but one of the top ones, had regular analysis of affirmative
BK>>action. They found that 90% of the benefits of affirmative action
BK>>went to whites.

 LL> White folks created it for their own benefit.  By creating
 LL> affirmative action, white folks expanded the work force for
 LL> employers.  An expanded work force meant more qualified
 LL> workers for employers to choose from.

 It said 90% of the benefits of AA went to white people.

 Employers did not need a law to hire non-whites.

 LL> Although not part of affirmative action, this example says
 LL> it all -

 LL> Paul "Bear" Bryant, head football coach at Alabama, wanted
 LL> to offer full scholarships to black athletes.  But he was
 LL> unable to do so due to opposition from Alabama alumni.  So
 LL> he got the Alabama athletic director to get in touch with
 LL> the University of Southern California athletic director,
 LL> thus setting up a football game between Alabama and USC.
 LL> The game was televised nationally, and played at Alabama.
 LL> USC easily won the game, by a wide margin.  I will not
 LL> repeat the taunts made by Alabama fans, which were very
 LL> carefully edited out from television.  The Alabama alumni
 LL> got the picture, and from that day forward allowed black
 LL> athletes to receive full scholarships.

 Which has nothing to do with what I said. Nor does it have
 anything to do with affirmative action.

 LL>>> has been reached, affirmative action programs are no longer
 LL>>> needed and should be dismantled.  However, once inequalities
 LL>>> re-emerge, affirmative action programs should be put back
 LL>>> in place.  This on again/off again approach is the only way
 LL>>> affirmative action programs can work in a truly fair manner.

BK>>Since Equality has not been reached, that's not relevant, yet.

 LL> The best that can be hoped for is a +/- percentage.  Not
 LL> really a quota system, but an approximation.

 It's not even approximately equal.

 BK>>> Which is true. We need affirmative action for all the poor in
 BK>>> America.

 LL>>> Bob Dole said much the same thing, but wanted to change it
 LL>>> from being a race-based program to being an economic-based

BK>>Which would mean, in the real world, focusing on white poor
BK>>first.

 LL> That was Bob Dole's idea, basing his argument on economic
 LL> terms rather than on racial terms.  Problem was he didn't
 LL> follow up with an actual plan of his own.

 Maybe he didn't mean it.

 ...

 LL>>> Do you think the Congress will do anything to save the SSDI
 LL>>> trust program?  By doing nothing, the cuts take effect

BK>>Not if the Tea Party can stop them.

 LL> Not to worry.  Ted Cruz will come to the rescue.  After
 LL> all, he has already stopped the Democrats.  He has also
 LL> stopped the Republicans. So who else is left to stop him?
 LL> You?  Please.  Give me a break.

 There are two effective political parties in DC. The Democratic
 Party and the Tea Party. The republicans are just a figment of
 some Tea Baggers imagination any more.

 ...

 LL>>> After gutting the SSDI program, Republican lawmakers will
 LL>>> move on to gutting the Social Security program for retirees
 LL>>> age 65 and over. Won't that be grand?

BK>>Gutting SSDI will cause so much trouble, and even trying to end
BK>>Social Security, the republicans will lose all the control they
BK>>have now.

 LL> That is why the GOP had to gut SNAP first.
 LL> By starving the poor, there will be fewer mouths
 LL> to feed.  And that means less opposition from
 LL> the poor, disabled, and elderly.  Keep doing
 LL> that for a few decades and then Republicans
 LL> will win every election by default.

 Except! The rich need poor people to serve them, so starvation
 will just mean they have to force more of the middle class into
 the poor. In the end they will find their policies self
 destructive.

 ...

 LL>>> Imagine that.  Folks who never worked a day in their life
 LL>>> are better off than folks who worked their butts off their
 LL>>> entire lives.

BK>>An awful lot of those on SSI and Medicaid have worked, and
BK>>Medicaid is 2/3rds the handicapped and elderly, last I checked.

 LL> They have not worked enough to earn the credits they need
 LL> for retirement.  For most people, 40 credits (quarters) is
 LL> the minimum. IOW, ten years of work over a lifetime (up to
 LL> age 65).  It should also be kept in mind that not all
 LL> governors have signed on to expanded medicaid, leaving many
 LL> people unable to obtain insurance through Obamacare.

 Yep, but even in Ohio the republican governor is trying an end
 run around the republican legislature to get Medicaid expanded.

 ...

BK>>Trust me, you are right. Though is just seems to me like a long
BK>>string of days off, or a very long vacation.

 LL> That's (marginally) better than terminal sleep (death).

 Nah, that's a lot better.

 BK>>> When I was young they could tell us, if we succeeded in school
 BK>>> we would have jobs. Now they tell kids, if they succeed in
 BK>>> school it's less likely they will be the ones without jobs,
 BK>>> someone else will be. Not much of a guarantee.

 LL>>> Social Security used to be a guarantee.  Not any more.
 LL>>> Pensions used to be a guarantee.  Not any more.

BK>>Social security will survive, unless the republicans get so much
BK>>power they can eliminate it quickly enough so the resistance can
BK>>not get organized.

 LL> They'll probably water it down to the point that nobody
 LL> will notice when the plug is pulled.

 Then we must take to the ramparts at the first attempt!

 Now, how's that French revolutionary song go?

...

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Rationalization is White Wash for the soul.
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