XPost: linux.debian.devel, linux.debian.policy   
   From: spwhitton@spwhitton.name   
      
   Hello,   
      
   Holger Levsen [10/Feb  5:57pm GMT] wrote:   
   > On Tue, Feb 10, 2026 at 05:43:30PM +0000, Sean Whitton wrote:   
   >> (1) The vast majority of upstreams that newcomers [...]   
   >   
   > dev-ref is a reference manual, not documentation aimed specifically at   
   > newcomers.  we have those, but dev-ref is not it.   
      
   Thanks.  I myself have hardly looked at dev-ref since 2016, except for   
   the NMU timings and the ITS policy, and this section on uploading seems   
   especially like only newcomers could want to read it.  But your   
   perspective on the purpose of the document is perfectly reasonable.   
      
   Holger Levsen [10/Feb  5:54pm GMT] wrote:   
   > I think I'm too annoyed having to waste too time already because of   
   > these premature propaganda stunts [...]   
      
   Calling what I tried to do here a propaganda stunt does not assume good   
   faith.  I would ask you to withdraw that accusation.   
      
   But, let me now try to be conciliatory:   
      
   I accept that my perspective on things may be too far from too many   
   other people's to make a change like I proposed in this bug right now.   
      
   tag2upload is not experimental -- that's why we ended the beta -- and   
   moreover, for many DDs and DMs, its limitations are minor.   
      
   For example, I maintain or team half-maintain maybe 90 packages in   
   total, and none of them use pristine-tar.  So the only case where I   
   cannot use tag2upload is when I need to upload to NEW, which is not   
   often.  Therefore tag2upload is my default way to upload, because why   
   wouldn't it be, it's so smooth and easy.   
      
   Even I, one of the designers, was taken aback by how much faster and   
   easier it is to use, the first time I did an actual live 'git debpush'   
   to the Archive :)   
      
   I think there are, in fact, many DDs and DMs in exactly this position.   
   For example, everyone else working in emacsen-team/ on salsa.   
      
   But it is wrong of me to assume that everyone else's perspective is like   
   this.  I have been using tag2upload for almost all my uploads for   
   months, but it only just came out of beta, so that will not be true for   
   most people.  So a change like this should probably wait, indeed.   
      
   I would encourage everyone reading to try 'git debpush' so we can move   
   on from this situation, towards one with greater mutual understanding.   
      
   --    
   Sean Whitton   
      
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