XPost: linux.debian.devel, linux.debian.policy   
   From: holger@layer-acht.org   
      
   Dear Sean,   
      
   On Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 11:52:14AM +0000, Sean Whitton wrote:   
   > > dev-ref is a reference manual, not documentation aimed specifically at   
   > > newcomers.  we have those, but dev-ref is not it.   
   > Thanks.  I myself have hardly looked at dev-ref since 2016, except for   
   > the NMU timings and the ITS policy, and this section on uploading seems   
   > especially like only newcomers could want to read it.  But your   
   > perspective on the purpose of the document is perfectly reasonable.   
      
   thanks.   
       
   > Holger Levsen [10/Feb  5:54pm GMT] wrote:   
   > > I think I'm too annoyed having to waste too time already because of   
   > > these premature propaganda stunts [...]   
   > Calling what I tried to do here a propaganda stunt does not assume good   
   > faith.  I would ask you to withdraw that accusation.   
      
   I understand your frustration about me using this term and usually I have no   
   problem to apology, however I've used that term after this discussion   
   (which wasnt the first claiming everyone should use tag2upload immediatly)   
   and *after having read* https://wiki.debian.org/tag2upload#Not%20supported   
   which reads as following:   
      
   -----begin quote----   
      
   == Not support ==   
   Uploads to NEW (even if only binary-NEW), because for those ftp.d.o currently   
   demands maintainer-generated binaries.   
      
   pristine-tar: With a new upstream version, tag2upload will generate a fresh   
   orig tarball with git archive (via git-deborig). This is OK, but it may   
   surprise some users. 1106071.   
      
   Uploads to security-master. This is difficult: 862105.   
      
   Uploads to backports where your workflow involves throwing away the changelog   
   entries for previous backports. I.e. if you start fresh for each version from   
   testing you backport. If you do something like git checkout debi   
   n/bookworm-backports && git merge    
   debian/latest and then resolve the debian/changelog merge conflict so as to   
   preserve all entries, then it works (1109584).   
      
   NMUs that don't use the package maintainer's git repository, and git workflow,   
   aren't likely to work well. Instead, use dgit, which offers a completely   
   uniform git-based NMU workflow.   
      
   DELAYED/DEFERRED uploads (1123680).    
      
   -----end quote----   
      
   And with limitations, i'm sorry but then i'm not, I feel limited to use   
   different words (than the one you called accusation) for your *important*    
   bug request documenting and recommending tag2upload for *everyone* right   
   now, a week after it came out of beta.   
      
   I surely have good faith in you (and Ian!) that you mean well, and also   
   that tag2upload will (and for some already is!) be super useful in the future.   
      
   However, we are not there yet. So yes, I stand by what I ment. And yes, maybe   
   "propaganda stunt" is a bit too much, however I'm not sure you would have   
   liked "immature $something" much better.   
      
       
   > But, let me now try to be conciliatory:   
      
   appreciated!   
       
   > I accept that my perspective on things may be too far from too many   
   > other people's to make a change like I proposed in this bug right now.   
      
   I'm glad you do!   
      
   > tag2upload is not experimental -- that's why we ended the beta -- and   
   > moreover, for many DDs and DMs, its limitations are minor.   
      
   yes, its not experimental since a week. Hardly mature enough to be recommended   
   for *everyone* (as your patch did) which youself have documented on    
   https://wiki.debian.org/tag2upload#Not%20supported   
      
   btw, I'd expect this URL (until the hash sign probably :) to be included   
   in src:devref! (this URL or another which is the canonical documentation   
   for tag2upload.)   
      
   Thank you!   
      
      
   --    
   cheers,   
   	Holger   
      
    ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀   
    ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁  holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org   
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   "If you get tired, learn to rest, not to quit." -- Banksy   
      
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