From: grammatim@verizon.net   
      
   On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 12:23:40 PM UTC-4, Bolwerk wrote:   
   > On 09/30/2015 03:45 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:   
   > > On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 3:09:15 PM UTC-4, Bolwerk wrote:   
   > >> On 09/30/2015 12:26 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:   
   > >>> On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 10:22:45 AM UTC-4, Bolwerk   
   > >>> wrote:   
   > >>>> On 09/28/2015 03:19 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:   
   > >>>>> On Monday, September 28, 2015 at 12:24:20 PM UTC-4, Bolwerk   
   > >>>>> wrote:   
   > >>>>>> On 09/27/2015 02:36 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:   
   > >>>>>>> On Sunday, September 27, 2015 at 11:38:54 AM UTC-4,   
   > >>>>>>> Bolwerk wrote:   
   > >>>>>>>> On 09/27/2015 09:50 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:   
   > >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 27, 2015 at 8:40:44 AM UTC-4,   
   > >>>>>>>>> Bolwerk wrote:   
   > >>>>>>>>>> On 09/25/2015 10:46 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, September 25, 2015 at 4:55:30 PM   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> UTC-4, Bolwerk wrote:   
      
   > >>>>>>>>>>>> What I don't get is why no rail solutions are   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>> considered for PABT remediation at all.  You   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>> can't move all those people off buses, but you   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>> can cut the crowding down a lot with rail.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>> HBLR via the Lincoln Tunnel would be cheap if   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>> the vehicles fit. Just look on the west side.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>> Even a new rapid transit line from NJ to the   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>> west side would be cheaper than $10B.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> So you want to cut the motor vehicle lanes from   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> 6 to 4 permanently, to accommodate a single rail   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> line that couldn't replace even 10% of the buses   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> that use it every day?   
   > >>>>>>>>>> That would hardly be a tragedy given how few people   
   > >>>>>>>>>> actually move through the tunnel by private   
   > >>>>>>>>>> automobile relative to transit at peak times.  At   
   > >>>>>>>>>> the peak hour in the AM rush, it's something like   
   > >>>>>>>>>> 3,000 people by car vs. 35,000+ on buses! Though I   
   > >>>>>>>>>> don't see why you think HBLR through the tunnel   
   > >>>>>>>>>> would draw so few people.   
   > >>>>>>>>> I didn't address number of people at all. I addressed   
   > >>>>>>>>> the flexibility of bus service versus the fixity of   
   > >>>>>>>>> rail service.   
   > >>>>>>>> "[R]eplace...10% of the buses" implies not many people   
   > >>>>>>>>  would switch and   
   > >>>>>>> Charitably, you could claim that HBLR goes to 5 different   
   > >>>>>>> places.   
   > >>>>>> I'd at least call every station a "place."   
   > >>>>> There are an awful lot more bus stops than rail stations.   
   > >>>> True, but many of them see virtually no usage.   
   > >>> Not so on the ones I've ridden from JC to PABT, namely the 123 on   
   > >>> Palisade Ave. (in front of my house) and the 119 on Central Ave.,   
   > >>> which originates in Greenville (southern JC). The 125 goes up JFK   
   > >>> Blvd, the most direct and probably the most commercial route,   
   > >>> though there are many fewer of them. The 126 from Hoboken runs   
   > >>> every 10 minutes for quite a few hours outside rush hour.   
   > >> I doubt any single bus line to NJ has HBLR's ridership, though I'm   
   > >> not sure.  Cumulatively the buses feeding PABT have huge   
   > >> ridership, but they diffuse over a relatively wide area.   
   > > Which rail CANNOT DO.   
   >   
   > Nor does it need to.  It needs to offer more capacity across the river.   
   > That is the problem that needs to be solved.   
      
   So your suggestion is that people ride those 52+ bus lines to a bus terminal   
   in Weekawken, and then transfer to a light rail through Lincoln Tunnel?   
   Where would its eastern terminus be?   
      
   > > I don't know even how well served the area was in days of street   
   > > rail -- it was thinly populated, so there couldn't have been much   
   > > business for streetcar lines outside Newark and maybe JC. The Hudson   
   > > Tubes connected those areas to Manhattan in 1908. (The Hoboken-WTC   
   > > link is very recent.)   
   > >>>>>>> That's less than 10% of the NJT bus routes, let alone the   
   > >>>>>>> other ones, and the NJT buses go to a lot more places   
   > >>>>>>> than Hudson County (the "B" in the name remains wishful   
   > >>>>>>> thinking).   
   > >>>>>> The waterfront is a pretty dense area though.  Plus you   
   > >>>>>> must consider some of HBLR's potential riders are using   
   > >>>>>> buses because, well, HBLR doesn't go to Midtown.   
   > >>>>> Two stops in western Hoboken, one in western Weekawken, and   
   > >>>>> one near the NY Waterways parking lot.   
   > >>>> Those two stops in western Hoboken probably have the bulk of   
   > >>>> Hoboken's population within half a km.   
   > >>> No, the west side of Hoboken is almost all housing projects. The   
   > >>> rich people who are likely to be commuting regularly to the city   
   > >>> use Washington St., where the 126 and almost all the other buses   
   > >>> (to other parts of Hudson Cty) run.   
   > >>>> The other side of the catchment is in northern Jersey City.  I   
   > >>>>  realize that part of JC is perhaps less dense, but is it   
   > >>>> *that* bad?   
   > >>> Not sure what "catchment" is, but no, the HBLR completely   
   > >>> ignores The Heights, Union City, and North Bergen; it gets from   
   > >>> the riverfront to Tonnele (US1-9) via the old formerly abandoned   
   > >>> rail tunnel.   
   > >> The catchment is the area around a station from which it draws   
   > >> users.   
   > > Well, since there are no stations, there are no catchment areas.   
   >   
   > The crossing to the station in Hoboken certainly allows some users in   
   > The Heights to use HBLR, however few.   
      
   Mass transit isn't built for the "however few." Where does HBLR go that   
   Heights residents would want to visit?   
      
   > >> 9th Street certainly seems to have a pedestrian crossing to the   
   > >> Heights. It involves an elevator ride, I think.   
   > >   
   > > Like I said: you don't know the area. Usually when I'm on the 123 to   
   > > the city, there's _no one_ waiting at the bus stop it detours to at   
   > > the top of the elevator -- i.e. for the few people who don't find it   
   > > more convenient to get off the HBLR at the transportation hub in the   
   > > SE corner of Hoboken, or the few Hobokeners who find it easier to   
   > > hike to the elevator than to get the 126 on Washington St.   
   >   
   > Providing an elevator for residents of Jersey Heights hardly seems like   
   > what you described: "HBLR completely ignores the The Heights."  Perhaps   
   > it is you who does not know the area? :(   
      
   Now I _know_ you've never been there and seen its location and configuration.   
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/9th+Street+Light+Rail+Station   
   @40.7485152,-74.0388677,92m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x89c2576432   
   a3451:0x14d3e2e8bb1fc588!6m1!1e1   
   > >>   
      
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