From: douglas@panix.com   
      
   ruben safir  wrote:   
   : We will probably have AI controlled flying cars by then.  The MTA is   
   : just full of bullshit projects that provide no useful outcomes and then   
   : they LIE.  The capacity of the Subway was nearly twice it is now in the   
   : 1940s, and SOMEHOW the signals worked.  Strangely enough, in general   
   : engineers don't like to smash their trained into other trains and they   
   : can stop when they see red lights and even stop when they see other   
   : trains, and they don't need 10's BILLIONS of dollars of useless tech so   
   : that the monitors in 42nd street can try to do it better.   
      
   All depends how you measure capacity.  We tore down elevateds because they   
   were eyesores and noise polluters.  We ran more trains per hour back then   
   beucase the standards changed.  There is a reason why the Empire State   
   Building went up in record time, and it wasn't because of OSHA.  Not that   
   I am advocating a return to such a time, but practices were differnet in   
   the past.  What is deemed a "safe following distance" is now different.   
   Higher speeds means finer tolerances on trackage, and that increases   
   maintenance costs, which might not be in the budget.   
      
      
   Instead of cited press, please provide numbers showing:   
      
   1.  How much is collected at the fare box.   
   2.  How much is contributed by government agencies - who and how much.   
      
   Then we need to see:   
      
   1.  How much money is spent on employe wages - which is two parts - actual   
   wages and benefits.  You can break this down to all levels of the MTA.   
   2.  How much money is spent on overhead - electricity, contractor services,   
   etc.   
   3.  How much money is spent on capital (rails, ties, cars, wire, light bulbs,   
   etc.)   
   4.  How much money is spent on retired employees.   
      
      
   Shit is expensive...  especially in New York.  I firmly believe people just   
   think things happen.  The true cost will be a sticker shock.  I don't   
   believe the money is there, and I believe the politicians will continue   
   to band aid the system until it falls apart, and then blame their   
   predecessors for leaving the system in such poor shape.   
      
   The two independent transit companies went pretty much bankrupt becuase   
   they couldn't raise the fare from a nickel to keep up from increased costs   
   in wages and maintenance.  Back then, Mayor Hylan would hold the companies   
   by the throat by preventing a fare increase, yet would complain about how   
   bad the service was...  He wanted the First Class ticket for the Coach price.   
   I believe the same is happening today.  Society is not willing to invest.   
   It's not just the subway... Looks at the rest of the infrastructure around   
   the country.   
      
      
      
      
   --   
       "How would you like it if you were a business executive, and when you   
          made a mistake, a red light went on and 18,000 people started   
                      screaming?" - Jacques Plante, goalie   
                   METS = My Entire Team Sucks    GO RANGERS!!!   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)