XPost: can.politics, can.rec.hunting, can.talk.guns   
   XPost: kingston.general, talk.politics.guns, van.general   
   From: @   
      
      
   >actually your guns, along with all other guns are either actually used in   
   >commiting crimes or they can potentially become crime-enabling weapons...   
   >so, by tracking all guns, we (as a society - try not to forget we're all in   
   >this together) are more capable of managing a problem that is insanely out   
   >of control....   
      
   >ho-hum.... try saying something different than the rest of the loons,   
   >ok?... at least provide a spin that demonstrates you've read at least a bit   
   >of this several-month-long thread... ya know, just to sound less like   
   >you're talking out of your ass....   
      
   I have owned a lot of guns, and not one of mine have ever been used in a   
   crime, same goes for all my friends.   
   And it is you who continues to just repeat the same old crap, with no proof.   
   You people have not posted one piece of evidence that shows the registry   
   works. I at least get off my ass, unlike you armchair do-gooders, and search   
   for proof either way, objectively. You obviously don't, you just keep   
   cutting and pasting the same old stuff, and you can't produce proof of   
   support in favour of your claims.   
   I do support and believe gun owners should be responsible, and I sir am, so   
   our guns don't get into the hands of criminals. I also support having to   
   pass gun safety courses and renewing an FAC every five years, but this far   
   too costly registry does nothing to aide in the final intensions, to reduce   
   crime and make us safer.   
   Why not use the wasted money on fighting crime and getting the criminals and   
   illegal guns off the street? As it is now, because of too few police and   
   other resources, and too little jail time and/or deterrent, the only way an   
   illegal gun is recovered is if a crime is committed. If police and the legal   
   system had the resources, they could get out there and find these criminals   
   and illegal guns and get them off the street before someone gets hurt.   
      
   Here are more facts that also seem to say registration doesn't work.   
   I'll just wait for that proof you have that shows the registry is making us   
   safer from gun crime, ok?!?   
   Larry. MorningMoon Bear   
    (NOT 'BOCK BOCK FOCK FOCK' Larry, TopPoster)   
      
      Article published Tuesday, June 15, 2004, at The National Post.   
      
   More gun control isn't the answer   
      
      
   By John R. Lott Jr. and Eli Lehrer   
      
   Gun control has not worked in Canada. Since the new gun registration program   
   started in 1998, the U.S. homicide rate has fallen, but the Canadian rate   
   has increased. The net cost of Canada's gun registry has surged beyond   
   $1-billion -- more than 500 times the amount originally estimated. Despite   
   this, the Canadian government recently admitted it could not identify a   
   single violent crime that had been solved through registration. Public   
   confidence in the government's ability to fight crime has also eroded, with   
   one recent survey showing only 17% of voters support the registration   
   program.   
      
   So, if this hasn't worked, what's the solution? The NDP, which polls   
   indicate may hold the balance of power in Parliament after June 28, has   
   proposed a radical solution: "going across the border to the U.S. and   
   actively engaging in lobbying to have gun -control laws in the U.S.   
   strengthened."   
      
   This is part of an ironic pattern: When gun control laws fail -- as they   
   consistently do, whether in Canada, the United States or other countries --   
   politicians seek to pass new laws rather than eliminate the old ones. In the   
   United States, gun -control groups now claim that the 1994 Brady Act   
   implementing background checks and assault-weapon bans failed to reduce   
   crime only because they didn't go far enough; and that city bans on handguns   
   in Chicago and Washington, D.C., failed only because other jurisdictions   
   didn't follow suit.   
      
   The same logic applies overseas: With violent crime and gun crime soaring in   
   the United Kingdom, where handguns are already banned, the British   
   government is banning imitation guns. And in Australia, state governments   
   are banning ceremonial swords.   
      
   Yet, the laws in Australia, Britain and Canada were adopted under what gun   
   control advocates would argue were ideal conditions. All three countries   
   adopted laws that applied to the entire country. Australia and Britain are   
   surrounded by water, and thus do not have the easy smuggling problem that   
   Canada claims with regard to the United States. The new attempts to ban toys   
   or cast blame on the United States, reek of desperation.   
      
   Crime did not fall in England after handguns were banned in 1997. Quite the   
   contrary, crime rose sharply. In May, the British government reported that   
   gun crime in England and Wales nearly doubled in the last four years.   
   Serious violent crime rates from 1997 to 2002 averaged 29% higher than 1996;   
   robbery was 24% higher; murders 27% higher. Before the law, armed robberies   
   had fallen by 50% from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned,   
   the armed robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels. The   
   violent crime rate in England is now double that in the United States.   
      
   Australia saw its violent crime rates soar after its 1996 gun control   
   measures banned most firearms. Violent crime rates averaged 32% higher in   
   the six years after the law was passed than they did the year before the law   
   went into effect. Murder and manslaughter rates remained unchanged, but   
   armed robbery rates increased 74%, aggravated assaults by 32%. Australia's   
   violent crime rate is also now double America's. In contrast, the United   
   States took the opposite approach and made it easier for individuals to   
   carry guns. Thirty-seven of the 50 states now have right-to-carry laws that   
   let law-abiding adults carry concealed handguns once they pass a criminal   
   background check. Violent crime in the United States has fallen much faster   
   than in Canada, and violent crime has fallen even faster inright-to-carry   
   states than for the nation as a whole. The states with the fastest growth in   
   gun ownership have also experienced the biggest drops in violent crime   
   rates.   
      
   It is understandable that Canadians are focusing on crime as the election   
   nears. Everyone wants to take guns away from criminals. The problem is that   
   law-abiding citizens obey the laws and criminals don't. Even in the unlikely   
   event that a Canadian government were to convince the United States to ban   
   guns, that would provide no more of a magic solution to Canadian crime than   
   its own failed gun registry.   
      
   John Lott Jr, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute in   
   Washington, is author of "More Guns, Less Crime" (University of Chicago   
   Press, 2000) and "The Bias Against Guns" (Regnery, 2003).   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)