XPost: can.politics, can.rec.hunting, can.talk.guns   
   XPost: kingston.general, talk.politics.guns, van.general   
   From: @   
      
   "klunk"  wrote in message   
   news:jXjxg.234463$IK3.187624@pd7tw1no...   
   >   
   > "Larry"  wrote in message   
   > news:Pshxg.85390$hp.40853@read2.cgocable.net...   
   >>    
   >>>actually your guns, along with all other guns are either actually used in   
   >>>commiting crimes or they can potentially become crime-enabling weapons...   
   >>>so, by tracking all guns, we (as a society - try not to forget we're all   
   >>>in this together) are more capable of managing a problem that is insanely   
   >>>out of control....   
   >>   
      
   Yes, you will be able to track my registered guns, but what about the   
   criminals that don't register theirs?  How is registration going to help us?   
   Why not put that money where it will do some good, getting criminals and   
   illegal guns off the street?   
      
    > I see... you support various costly initiatives to ensure safe and   
    > responsible firearms use yet you think only the registry is expensive and   
    > does nothing to deal with the growing problem of violent crime.....   
    > hmmmm.... AND you claim "objectivity".....?!?!?!?   
      
   What costly initiatives? If by that you mean the idea of putting more police   
   on the streets, and making sure the real criminals actually get punished,   
   and getting guns out of hands that shouldn't have them, that money would   
   come from the millions wasted on this registry, that only tells the cops   
   what guns law abiding citizens have.   
   Plus, as I've said, everyone has to renew FAC every five years; without an   
   FAC, a person can't own or purchase a gun, nor purchase ammunition. Thus,   
   when the police go on a call, with a click of a mouse they will know if   
   firearms are at the residence because the FAC would show up. But, if no FAC   
   is on file for the person, and they illegally have guns, what benefit then   
   is the registry? None.   
   So, police know ahead of time if guns are suppose to be present on a call   
   because of the FAC, only licensed people can purchase/own guns and ammo;   
   even with the registry, there is no way for the police to know for sure if   
   guns will be involved on any call; criminals won't register guns anyway; and   
   the aforementioned safeguards are already in place so there's no additional   
   cost.   
   All that money being wasted could get criminals and illegal guns off the   
   streets.   
   Should that not be our prime objective?   
      
   >yes.... the same old crap... with no prooooooof, you say?   
   > hmmmmmmm..... i must be watching a different channel,   
   > 'cause the plotline on my soap has been the loony-toon-gun-loons crooning   
   > the same ol' tune... btw... when are you going to start calling me a liar?   
   > yes... you got off your ass to search for proof you say.... hmmmm.... and   
   > what proof was that....?..... a couple of grumps grumbling.... hmmmm....   
   > members of the gun-loon-lobby, perhaps.... even retired policemen who   
   > didn't know the registry applied to them and that they probably wouldn't   
   > even know how to turn on their computer, much less understand complex   
   > mathematics utilized to determine criminal behaviour patterns...   
      
   We haven't seen anything from you at all that proves registration works,   
   only the same old crap. You people said the police force is all in favour of   
   the registry, but have not backed that up. And when I produced evidence that   
   in fact, the very people you say support it, people who know because they're   
   out there on the front lines, don't support the registry and you cry it's   
   only a few retired incompetent cops.   
   In an earlier post, I even posted a number of chiefs saying they have   
   changed their mind, and are no longer in favour of the registry because it   
   doesn't, nor will it ever work.   
   Well, here are some cops that aren't retired, or incompetent. They are high   
   rank, and/or seasoned officers.   
   Can you please post the proof you say you have, rather than just resorting   
   to name calling. You made the claim that cops, and especially the chiefs,   
   supported it, show me.   
   I particularly like this first one, chief telling his officer to not use the   
   registry, but also not speak out against it or he would be fired!!!! WOW.   
      
   SASKATCHEWAN RCMP OFFICER: "I met with an RCMP officer this week who was   
   told by his superiors to stop sending requests to the gun registry before   
   attending domestic disputes because he 'was putting his life in danger'. The   
   RCMP officer was told the usual 'no guns' response to his query 'creates a   
   false sense of security'. The young officer was also told that if he ever   
   criticized the gun registry publicly his career would be over," reported   
   Breitkreuz.   
      
   SOURCE: MP Garry Breitkreuz's News Release dated December 15, 2005 - Name   
   withheld at the officer's request   
      
   TORONTO POLICE CHIEF JULIAN FANTINO: Asked about the bamboozle of the   
   federal gun-registry system, a billion-dollar fiasco, Fantino - who does not   
   support the registry, unlike most police chiefs in Canada - noted that the   
   system has not helped Toronto police solve a single homicide. "We have spent   
   an extraordinary amount of money in this one area, but we haven't given the   
   same attention with regards to gun crime in our society.''   
      
   Source: Quote from The Toronto Star - "A shot fired across the bow of a smug   
   Toronto"- Column by Rosie Dimanno - Page A02, March 10, 2004   
      
   TORONTO POLICE CHIEF JULIAN FANTINO: "In the most immediate sense, what we   
   need to do is put these criminals out of commission and we can't do it   
   ourselves," he said, reiterating his calls for harsher sentences. "We need a   
   criminal justice system that works more efficiently and effectively to deter   
   people intent on engaging on a life of crime. "In today's reality, in the   
   minds of far too many criminals, gangsters and that, crime pays," added   
   Fantino. "Going to court every couple of days is the price of doing   
   business. Legal aid is provided, they get bail forever, (and) sentences are   
   discounted like bargain-basement kinds of sales." The most recent slayings   
   brought the number of murders in Toronto to nine so far this year, compared   
   with three at the same time last year.   
      
   Source: Quote from The Hamilton Spectator - "Violence shooting down T.O.'s   
   reputation as safe city"- February 24, 2004   
      
   TORONTO POLICE CHIEF JULIAN FANTINO: Since the Guns and Gangs Task Force   
   began conducting compliance checks on residents freed on bail after being   
   charged in a gun-related crime, "almost 50% were breaching their   
   conditions," he said. During such "house calls" over the last four months,   
   119 of the 239 accused criminals checked were re-arrested for failing to   
   live up to pre-trial release orders. "What does that tell you? They are not   
   intimidated or deterred by the consequences of their actions," Fantino said.   
      
      
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